The DijonStock Digital Home Recording Support Forum

Hi...read and read again the manual, but i still cant grasp how to do this: When i save a song and close down, i want the EQ, Dynamics, effects etc to be saved so that....when i start up again and load say, a different song....the settings are relevant to that song and not those left over from a previous song. It seems to have to do with the scene memories......if that is so...can someone poin t me in the right direction....if i am on the right track i will find it somehow. cheers in advance

Hi Clipper,

A scene is a snapshot of all eq, fx, dynamics, panning, volume settings.

If you want the machine to remember the settings, save it in a scene. Don't forget to save the song after that, as the scene is stored in the song. To do that, press the scene button, select an unused slot, give it an appropriate name and save. And then save the song.

When you go to another song that you've been previously working on, the settings of the first song still apply. They don't fit the new song as it may very well be completely different. However you followed the same instructions there - saving the settings in a scene before loading another song. So, press the scene button, select the slot that holds your scene, and recall it. Do anything you want with the project, change settings, save scenes etc etc. but there comes a point in time where you want to go back to the first song and continue working on that one. Load the song, press the scene button and recall the scene you saved earlier. If you make any changes to the mix or whatever it is you do, before leaving the song, save the scene and then save the song.

Using this procedure you can always go back, for every song, to the collection of settings where you were when you left the song.

The collection of settings does not change, even when you load a different song, except for

1) when you manually change it (ride the faders, turn the knobs etc)
2) when a scene is recalled from a scene list
3) when a scene is recalled by the tempo map of a song

That's about all there is to know about scenes.

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Don't judge the coffee by its cup.
The proof of the cheese is in the eating

Wow....how fast was that! I will give it a go today. Many many thanks

Don't forget that when you load a new scene, the physical control of the faders is over-ridden. To see this - Go to View>fader - see where the volume levels are set. There will be dark sections either above or below each slider's image. You have to move the physical fader to the location of the image of the slider (if you want to adjust the volume ) > as soon as the dark portion disappears, you have regained physical control of that fader. Until you do this, all movements you make with that physical slider do not register. As you tweek your scenes this is vital to know.

No need to go to the fader's screen each time though. Just run the slider of the channel upon which you want to adjust, top to bottom or bottom to top, after loading a scene but before you set your new volume.


This true of the red stereo fader too.

When you recall the initial settings scene, all volumes are moved to infinity (completely down)

Once your scene is set as you like, it can be placed in the tempo map for automatic recall during a mixdown. but if you are using scenes and there was one fader you wished to ride during the mixdown, you would need to go to the View > fader screen to grab control of the fader you want to ride, as the song is playing during the mixdown.

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Byron

And now you know everything there is to know about scenes!

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Don't judge the coffee by its cup.
The proof of the cheese is in the eating

I typically save once scene for each song. Usually, as scene 01. If I use scene 01, I can rename it...or I can leave it as 01 New Data.

Then I use the tempo map, to place scene 01 to load on the first measure of the song. It's pretty easy to do this. Scroll to the tempo map using the song button. Then use the cursor to scroll all the way to the box on the far right of the display, and I believe that box is marked Scene. Now hit enter, and use the wheel to change the setting in that box from -- to 01. Leave all the other settings as is, and that will load scene 01, at the first measure.

That way, each time I load a tune.....the appropriate scene is loaded, for playback.

Just remember, as you make further changes to the mix for the song and scene you've loaded from the tempo map.....you need to save each change, otherwise....it will reload to the previously saved scene settings, each time you return to zero. To avoid that, remove scene 01 from the tempo map. Once you've done that, manually load scene 01. Make your changes to the mix....and when you're done mixing, save that revised mix to scene 01. Before shutting down, reload scene 01 back into the tempo map....and that scene will load automatically, next time you load up the song.

If you want multiple mixes of the same song, just save multiple scenes. Pick one to load at start up, via the tempo map. You can recall the other mixes (scenes) at any time using the scene button.

You can also automate a series of scenes to change the mix at various stages of playback of a song, by using the tempo map as well, but that process is more complicated than what I've described.

Changing scenes within a song certainly does create some logistical issues, but is well worth knowing how to do. the tempo map is based on beat/measure so works best when the artist keeps good time.

learn how to do as utah and robbie advised, don't forget the fader control thing I described, and then eventually you will develop strategies for integrating your skills into your mixdown process. Establishing multiple scene changes within a song would be one of the last things you do as you develop a mix. Scene changes are abrupt, so any thoughts of morphing from one scene to another are not very productive. Scene changes that turn tracks / effects / other things - on and off - work well. this is VERY handy when you just don't have enough hands or seconds within which to accomplish what you wish to happen in real time as the mix is recorded.

Problems start arising when you have several scene changes prepared for a mix and then you want to adjust one parameter, ( say the output gain on the compressor on the main vocal track) You have to make that same adjustment in all the scenes (either during a playback, or by recalling each in turn and then saving it, in the correct slot - this is truly a pain and the process is littered with potholes to knock you off track. so when you get to multiple scene stage - you need to "work smart" and SAVE - SAVE - SAVE.

The old 4416 and the newer ( but discontinued ) 2400 machines have Automix functions that will accomplish volume changes very smoothly -but on the G and 1600, volume adjustments during a mixdown are best done manually.

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Byron

Great points Byron. I came to the conclusion early on, that I would use an approach of having one scene per song and that I would manually manipulate the faders/effects/on-off channels/ etc......when doing a final mix-down. There's nothing automated in that approach, but it was easier than trying to map out a bunch of scenes to the tempo map.

Of course, this means that some of my 'ideas' are not realized, as I only have two hands, but for the most part....that approach works, and it keeps things simple.

I work that way (hands on in real time) for the most part too, but since i got the 2400 the auto mix has been very handy. the 2400 has real faders for the effects sends and returns, and these can be trained as well in the Automix. this is really great for ramping up a reverb mid song for dramatic emphasis, or also can be used to eliminate reverb tails during endings. You can also automate your Panning moves, so you can develop a bit of movement within a mix,
Used subtly, these are very utilitarian features.

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Byron

Hi Clipper
It only sounds like a lot but scenes really are easy and helpful, and the guys have done a great job explaining some different approaches and uses for scenes.
If you record roughly the same instruments on different songs you can set up a master scene, so to speak. You have your basic rythym section and vocals. Set them up so they record through the same inputs to the same tracks every time. You may want to setup input parameters (eq/dynamics) to save and call that "Record scene01" for instance. Then at mixdown you want different parameters. Set them up and save scene as "Mix scene 01". **Before you create a new song to record on, first recall "Record scene01" from the song you are working on (you will see the input lights come on). Create new song and a screen will ask which items to import. Cursor to scene, hit enter and your new song will be ready to go with your "Record scene01".
Over time you can tweak and save these record and mix scenes so you have optimum starting points for each stage of creation for every new song. If you don't save the scene after tweaking it will revert back to your last saved optimum starting point.
**I do it this way because sometimes the record scene isn't in the new song (just the mix scene recalled from the previous song), so you can't recall them without a bunch of monkeying around, like save song/ load older song/ load scene/ reload song you're working on/ move faders up and down/ check/ recheck everything/ lose hair/ perhaps drink or three, etc.....
Maybe there is an easier way but I never progressed any farther than what works for me. You'll have it figured out in no time.
Bruce

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If humanity is to pass safely through its present crisis on earth, it will be because a majority of individuals are now doing their own thinking". Buckminster Fuller
and..... 'learning to like to do what we have to do.'"

Good suggestions Bruce.

I remember reading the old ( original ) aw16g.com forum, and reading about scenes. This was when I had purchased my G, but not received it yet. Scenes, as well as, many other functions scared the hell out of me. I actually had a moment of anxiety, where I questioned even buying a G. I figured I was way in over my head.

But, once I grasped onto the concept that a scene, was basically a 'snapshot' of the settings you wanted, I started to figure out how to use the scene function, to save settings....and use the scene button to recall those settings. Mapping the faders to the scene, was another step. It's easy...just follow the graphic, as explained in a previous post.

Things started to clarify at that point, and scenes have seemed easy to understand since that revelation. That said....I've still never mapped more than one scene to the tempo map of a song. Maybe some day, I'll take that leap!!!

He he. You guys are ahead of me. I've never used the tempo map. Once there was a plan to do up my own songs that way but things started happening with real players instead of just me and the virtual drummer.
One thing to add to my previous post; When creating these scenes you must remember to enable either the input buttons or track buttons when entering effects and such.
Oh my. Guess what? I think I erred and made things to complicated.
So now I have a question.
If you set up all your inputs and tracks and save the whole thing as a scene, will that whole scene be a part of the next new song if you select "import scene"?
So when you finish recording and go to mixdown, will the track parameters be there without switching scenes? I ask because when you change scenes, inputs or tracks get selected and light up. For quick playback I seem to always have to switch the scene to track parameters to have better sound. Inputs usually have gates and limiters on them. Tracks have you know: eq and the mighty compresser.
G (no pun intended) just when you think you "get it", maybe not.

Bruce

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If humanity is to pass safely through its present crisis on earth, it will be because a majority of individuals are now doing their own thinking". Buckminster Fuller
and..... 'learning to like to do what we have to do.'"

I think you're making things way too hard for yourself. A scene is nothing more than a snapshot of all settings. They will only change when you change it, recall a scene, or when the tempo map recalls a scene.

You can import scenes from a different song, so the answer to your question is "yes".

Selecting a track or input in itself does not change the settings. It only is a first step - it is telling the machines which track/input a change will apply to, without actually changing anything. It's like selecting text in your word processor, it is telling the machine which part of the text the next change will apply to, but as long as you don't actually change anything (like changing the font or size), making a selection doesn't do anything.

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Don't judge the coffee by its cup.
The proof of the cheese is in the eating

Scenes are one of the most useful functions on this machine.

When you import scenes from one song to another - all the slots get over written. You don't add scenes, but rather replace the current scene list with the list from the song you specify during the import process. You can't "build" a scene list using the import function. That said - purposeful use of the Load > Save features will allow you to build a library in a "holding" song- but this is cumbersome, at least for my work flow habits.

All my scenes set TRACK parameters. It is rare that i would want to set up any parameters for the inputs. best to record "dry" - so no need to save any settings at all on inputs. Of course if you are recording a drum kit - you may want to tailor the inputs - but dry recording is the way to go IMO.

After you make Input > Track assignments, As you record you actually listen to the tracks (not the inputs) after they have been digitized (recorded) - so you can do what you want as you listen - without affecting the recording - as long as you stay on the track side, as Bruce pointed out. During a concert or set recording, as long as I am not sending my signal to the house, I often design my "mix" as i listen to the tracks during the actual recording. The scene button works on the fly - so as you build a scene during playback or during recording - press that scene button often and take "snapshots". Overwrite the scene you saved previously or put your evolving efforts into new slots - your choice.

Scenes do not save preamp settings. Neither do they save input > Track assignments. These both must be set manually each time - so a good memory or a track sheet is required to re-establish these aspects.

As for the tempo map > very useful if you know the (beat per minute) tempo of your song and if the artist sticks to it. (click - ghost tracks useful here). when you set the tempo map's bpm, the display of beats and measures adjusts to that specified tempo. This is very handy for editing purposes, use of the pads and for scene changes during a song. But if the tempo is not steady, the tempo map is not too useful. You can't specify tempo map events based on the time display - only on beat/measure - so if there is not a beat (based on the tempo map's current bpm parameter) exactly where you want something to happen - you are out of luck.

Scenes are vital to know and use if you have more than one project on the go. Always save a scene just before you shutdown or switch songs, so you can return to that "snap" of parameters. When asked to save as you shutdown or load a new song, this does not update your scene list. You must do that manually before leaving a song.

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Byron

hi there i tried saving song settings for each song by scrolling with song button and then across to scene box using curser arrows but curser would not move to this box i'm very new to this so am probably doing it all wrong

Press the scene button to get tp the screen that allows you to save scenes.

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My music: https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1215402&content=songs

I like how we were all able to work together on this thread and not cause a scene!

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