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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:42 am 
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While going through my recording boxes in the garage, I came across a "stereo bar" for mounting 2 mics on one mic stand. Since last year I bought a matched pair of Rode NT5 small condensors, I decided to try some XY micing on my D18 guitar.

At first I was totally confused, since the 2 mics panned to center had less volume than when panned hard L-R. I was using scenes to quickly switch back and forth between the 2 playback situations. After scratching my head for a while I noticed I'd somehow inverted the phase of one track when I had the 2 mics panned to center. :) Duh. Nice stereo image with the setup.

Still being in the experimental mood I remembered I now have a figure 8 mic with the ribbon I bought last year. Using this and a single NT5 I set up a mid-side (M/S) stereo setup. Very neat how you can control the amount of stereo image by adjusting the track levels of the figure 8 tracks (both the same but one inverted). The ribbon sounds too muddy on my D18, so I'm going to look for a medium priced variable pattern condensor to use M/S more (subject of another thread).

Mic on,

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:52 am 
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Those NT5's outa make that Martin sound good. I have gone back to SDC mics for guitars. They seem more forgiving than a LDC as far as prox. effect goes. I have found good acoustic guitar micing to be one of my biggest challanges. It's really all in the placement. Move 'em around till they sound good. There are no rules.

Your idea on mid-side is kind of a variation of what I do that fairly works well on my Martin. I use one NT-5 pointed at the 10th to 12th fret. Another cardiod LDC mic is mounted behind me over the right shoulder. My Martin sounds very muddy if it is miced anywhere around it's body. I have found my Taylor 110 sounds much better miced than my Martin. But for live sound .........there's magic in every Martin.

I'm sure ayear from now I'll be doing something different.

Oddly when I played live , I dropped an old Radio Shack battery powered condenser inside the body and ran that thru the PA with fairly good results.

whatever it takes

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am 
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So, with the LDC placed above your shoulder do you set it in a Fig 8. as in a Mid/side setup? If so, how far apart are the two mics, (SDC and LDC)and is phase an issue with them separated. and off axis?

Never tried this setup, but would like to try. I find with acoustic guitars miced with a traditional mid/side coincident setup ( about 12 - 14 inches away from the guitar), the sound of the instrument moves around in the stereo field, capturing (and magnifying?) the guitarists movement however small. Good to a degree, but quite distracting in some instances.

I like the mid/side technique's image. Out side the studio, I've been using it with choirs these past few months, and it really adds a realistic, roomy yet not over reverbrant sound. This really helps to capture the articulation, without being too dry or emphasizing individual voices. Supported with a few spot mics, (depending on the accompaniment and on soloist - choir placement), I've been very pleased with results.

Byron

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:33 am 
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I've tried the over the shoulder with the fig of eight pattern and in my small cluttered studio , and I think the cardiod pattern pointed slighty to the right works best there. I've also had some good results experimenting with an omni pattern on the LDC. It seems to accentuate the highs of the SDC on the neck. Mid-side works very well on the manodlin.
The only phase issues I've noticed is using the Fig.8 pattern. Always a good practice to flip the switch on the mixer to check for phase problems. I now use two Samson D-1500 RTA's , sidechained , set in the phase detection mode for visual confirmation of proper phasing.

I seem to have the most phase issues micing the upper rotor of a Leslie.


Off topic:
As far as choirs go , on my Comp CD song , I listened to numerous choir recordings to get an idea how live choirs sound miced. I used this data to set up the choir tape samples in the M-Tron . I mixed the female , male , tenor and boys choirs together and actually wanted to have certain note voices stand out at certain times in the mix. It seemed to help the roverall realism .

msg

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:41 pm 
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I've read about the "over the shoulder" placement of the 2nd mic. Never tried it (that I remember anyway). Since I'm still feeling "experimental", I'll give it a whirl today. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:32 am 
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Well, I made a trial recording with an NT5 about 6" from the 12th fret and a KSM32 over my right shoulder about top-of-head height pointing down at the bridge. I really like the sound I got. Kind of in the middle of the stereo width results for XY (less) and M/S (much more). I had the RNP preamp gain the same for both channels. The KSM32 was only about 3db lower than the much closer NT5. Lots of volume from the body obviously (or maybe due to mic sensitivity differences also).

Thanks for the reminder, MSG. Now gotta come up with a new song I can use the technique on. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:05 am 
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Glad it worked out Ralph.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:52 am 
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On the choir topic. Certainly you want certain notes, carried by certain parts, to be evident in a mix. If by voices you are referring to the "voicing " of the patches you are creating on the synth - then yes they should each be distinct. but in recording choral music, mic placement to achieve a blend of room reverbration, while not losing articulation and at the same time capturing a blend of each section's "voice" but not it's individual voices is of primary consideration.

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Byron

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:30 pm 
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I know what you a saying Byron. What I was trying to do was create a certain realism by having the patches make certain "small mistakes" here and there. Random individual late notes , someone singing too loud , differances in "swell" , etc. Because the mellotron choirs are actual voice recordings , my "programmed" mistakes even further enhance their realism.

This is new territory for me and will be revealed in the upcomming comp CD.

msg

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:34 pm 
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Looking forward to hearing everyone's work.

Cheers,

byron

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