The DijonStock Digital Home Recording Support Forum

Help! I'm working on my parody. I wanted to fix a minor guitar part. Here's what I did (or have done for the longest time that no longer works): When the song got just in front of the measure, I pressed the set and in button. Then the set and out button after the measure. Then I pressed auto punch. Practiced and hit record play. Doesn't record over the part. Doesn't drop out like it used to. Just does nothing.

Am I missing step or perhaps have something different. I promise it was working the other night just fine. I have the input connected to the track just like always. The record light flashes on the track. I can record the track normally just fine. But now when I do a punch, it doesn't work. In fact, the red record light never goes solid, it's flashing. I don't recall this ever being a problem until today. Lord knows I need my punch ins.

Anyone?

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GSMUSIC: Hey RZ, Im not no upper class american, the gear I own is what I have special to me. My car sucks, my house sucks, my nieghborhood sucks. Does yours RZ? Does it?

rz-land

A couple of suggestions.

Make sure you in out points are in the right spots. There is a message at the bottom of the screen if they are not. for instance sometimes the B point gets placed before the A, or they may be too close together ( Invalid region ???)

The A/B points always revert to the last recording pass, so if you perhaps turned off the auto to audition a punch in, decide it is not suitable, then engage record without first enabling the auto , your A/B point s will change. If you realized this quickly, then the A/B points will be very close together. If you started from the A point, the B will have been moved

Examine your habit for engaging the record function. After missing an important part of a concert once for a client, I realized i was actually hitting record a bit after play, so record never started. Now I hold down the record button, then press play to engage the machine.

Some times it appears as if the input --> track assignment gets broken, even though it still appears on the screen. I am not sure why this occurs, but it has to do with playback procedure.

are you using the automix? Autopunch is best undertaken without the automix engaged, as every time you press play the automix engages a scene, which would negate the input --> track assignment showing on the record button's matrix of assignments.

Keep me posted, and i will help you trouble shoot if i can.

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Byron

Good thoughts Byron. I may have pressed an in spot, realized it was wrong and went a bit ahead and pressed in again. Then I pressed the out. I know I was connected because I could record, but not auto punch. Not sure if the auto mix is engaged, but I had just been auto punching the day before with no trouble.

I'll look at the manual, but how do you clear your in and out markers? I tried the erase, but it didn't seem to work. Thought maybe that would help.

Thanks

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GSMUSIC: Hey RZ, Im not no upper class american, the gear I own is what I have special to me. My car sucks, my house sucks, my nieghborhood sucks. Does yours RZ? Does it?

rz-land

In out markers don't really need to get erased, they just get moved about. You can use the Cancel button. The cancel button can be used for eliminating all types of markers In/Out; A/B; place markers.

You can see what marker was last passed as the tracks move along. Look at the top left of the diplay and the current marker is displayed. This is visible on all screens and stays static until you pass another marker, then the symbol changes. also along the bottom of the screen that displays all the recorded tracks (track button on left of machine) the markers are shown where they have been placed. so they appear and disappear as the track rolls along.

Pressing any of the A?B or In/Out marker buttons will take you to that spot directly, so it is easy to locate those guys. The regular markers must be advanced through one at a time by consecutive taps of the marker button. The 2400 has a convenient feature of allowing specific markers to be set with the number pad. Hold the Set key and hit any of the numbers and a marker will be dropped there. So then you can move directly to that marker from anywhere in the file with the hit of the number. save the push push of the regular marker button.

I often set 9 as the file end, 1 to the spot for the downbeat at the intro. the numbers between I sometimes use by making a numbered markers at the same point as my In and Out points. then if i make the mistake of hitting record without the autopunch engaged, then it is just a matter of hitting undo, and then use the numbered markers to go to the A Point and then likewise the B. This would be useful if you were to do a punchin that would require playing back several times to "get it right" or "get it Better".

As you probably know, the best way to judge a punch in is to record, turn the autopunch off, press play, judge, hit undo if unsatifactory, re-engage auto punch, redo.

If you forget to press undo - no big deal, that just adds to the "file Clutter" and advances the Undo list, but if you forget to re-engaged the autopunch, then you get into the movement of the In/out points. That is when the other types of markers (regular or numbered) will save a lot of time, if you remember to set them up as a precaution.

The jog wheel is very useful for fine tuning punch in points. You can listen to a repetitive clip either before or after the jog point (set in preferences) and the jog point is movable with the jog wheel. so you can get the exact location through listening for the first "click" of an entry/exit or a specific word. Likewise to set Out points. The wave display is often useful to get even finer tuned.

Harkening back to the benefits of click track. If you have your song working is some reasonable fashion to the click, and the tempo map is set to the proper tempo #, you are able to easily establish Start and Stop times when editing and copying. Rather than doing repeated punchins, sometimes the same phrase or piece or note occurs elsewhere within the track and it is easier to move that section than to set up and perform a punchin. the click-based structure facilitates much easier editing, helping find places at the beginnning and ends of complete phrases or lines or sections within the song's arrangement using the bar and beat number fields that is available on all editing screens. All the tracks can be copied at once to, if so desired, making substitution of a chorus (for E.G) that reappears several times in a song. Perhaps there is one delivery you favour. So you can use that each time it comes around, or perhaps move your "best delivery" to the last time it will be heard ..... I could not get along without using a click for all these editing reasons. Not being a competent musician, able to re-perform "exactly" each time, the editing power is necessary to achieve satisfaction with progress before the "bogged down" factor sets in.m the measure/beat field create an much more comfortable and accessible workflow.

But it is still possible to edit successfully only with punch ins, as you are trying to do. I am sure you will find your reason. Developing workflow habits when using the auto punch is essential. Problems usually boil down to In/Out marker positioning. Let me know how it goes.

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Byron

Hmmmm . . . I used a click track. But perhaps I had turned it off since I had my drum track. Is there any correlation to auto punch and click track? do I need to turn it back on?

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GSMUSIC: Hey RZ, Im not no upper class american, the gear I own is what I have special to me. My car sucks, my house sucks, my nieghborhood sucks. Does yours RZ? Does it?

rz-land

No, you don't need to turn it back on, but check the tempo map (Edit button I think). Set the tempo to the exact bpm number of the click and the proper time signatue (3/4 or 4/4 probably) and the measure/beat numbers will match to the tempo.

If your song is like many, you will quickly understand that it becomes convenient to consider editing and punch in move base upon 4 and 8 bar segments. this greatly facilitates the punchin workflow.

Now if you used the AW's metronome as the click you will already have set up the tempo map as needed. but if you got your click from another source (drum machine for eg.) you will need to get the AW structured to match ---> then you can move to using the measure/beat counts, for much greater speed/ease and probably accuracy.

I have a great deal of experience doing all this, so if you choose to go the beat/measure route there are a few questions that will come to mind and i will be glad to help you quickly establish what beat/measure #'s are appropriate for the start/ stop points. There is a seeming bit of il-logic surrounding the stop point. but once you have it, it makes sense and you will be independent, as it is easy and always the same.

You can turn the click back on if you wish, but it is not integrated into the actual editing process in any fashion. It is there for reference. In your case, i would be setting up the tempo map to match the bpm of the click used to play the drums. With the metromone on, listen to the song. If the AW's metronome is in sync and stays in sync with your drum track, then the measure beat fields will be very useful to you. If they are not in sync it may be an alignment issue if the click to which you played did not start at the 0:00 point of the AW's track. Some realignment will fix such an issue. If on the other hand you used a click to get you going on your drum (or other bed) track, but did not stay faithful to it, then the AW's measure/beat indicators will begin to make obvious the variation.

I am going to go to my machine and try a few things to see if i can get the auto punch to "not" work.

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Byron

I don't think I have ever punched in to a specific beat before. I haven't tried it today. But I hope to give it a shot later on. I am baffled.

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GSMUSIC: Hey RZ, Im not no upper class american, the gear I own is what I have special to me. My car sucks, my house sucks, my nieghborhood sucks. Does yours RZ? Does it?

rz-land

make sure your tempo Map accuratly depicts the song's tempo and time signature.

Play back the song. Look in the top right of the dispalay. You will see the measures and beat ticking along. in 4/4, If the 1 (or the1 and the 3) appears at the downbeat as you tap or nod along with the rhythm you are good. If this is what you have, then look at any of the edit screens and you will see, on the right, measure and beat numbers, although they aren't labeled as such.

If the chorus , for e.g., starts at bar 38 and is 8 measures long, dial 38 up, making sure the beat # says 1
the set of numbers is the end point of the section you wish to manipulate/move/copy. Set this measure to 46-1, in this example.

The beat # always indicates the start of the beat. So for an 8 measure section you need everything in the last measure. Hence you use, in this example 46 -1, rather than 45 - 4. Be careful when you start rolling the beat numbers, as the measure # will change when you get out side of the 1-4 in each measure.

The last parameter on the EDIT screens is of course the target location.

You can copy right over the data already in place, so don't bother erasing etc.

If in you performance you are true to the click on the down beat of sections this is usually seamless. If the edit is audible, don't depair as sometimes a little adjustment of the target points will slide it in as desired. As I said, I have loads of experience with this process, and there are little habits to develop to make it go smoothly each time.

I do lots of editing and rarely resort to the computer platforms, so message or PM me and \i will get you up to speed. Perhaps if you develop these skills you will do more than 1 song/year ??????

this of course is all dependent on the song's synch with the BPM as inidicated in the tempo map (EDIT button)

One last caution - hint. you can use the enter key to get the current time shown at the top of the display to show in the edit parameter lines, but the measure /beat #s will stay the same whether you are in the middle of a beat or at the beginning. to be accurate, if you are using the enter key to navigate, always use the jog wheel to roll to the beat before and then roll up to the exact spot where beat 4 turns to beat 1 of the next measure. Then you will be sure to be at the right spot.

It takes a bit to get your workflow habits established, but once there - you are away!

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Byron

Well, I didn't do anything different. This time I was working with my mic. I was practicing a take and made a mistake. So I did the same auto punch routine: Pressed set and the in button and then set and the out. I pressed auto punch, practiced the part, hit record play and it worked. So, while I still don't know why it wouldn't work with my bass, it did work for the mic. I have no earthly idea what happened, but suffice to say, it worked this time.

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GSMUSIC: Hey RZ, Im not no upper class american, the gear I own is what I have special to me. My car sucks, my house sucks, my nieghborhood sucks. Does yours RZ? Does it?

rz-land

I suspected as much. I tried to make mine do its work today with some very closely set in out points. The thing acted normally even with the points very close together.
the only way i could get it to act kind of like you described in the original post is when there is no input to track assignment showing. When the out point was before the in point the autopunch would not fire up and an error message displayed. My guess is something was amiss in the input to track assignment link.

Check out the the tempo thing and start using the measures to navigate. You may be glad about teaching yourself how to do that.

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Byron

Don't know if you managed to fix your 'punch' problem, but if not then it may be worth re-installing the firmware. I have a copy plus instructions on how to install it.

Hi. Thanks for the offer. I don't quite know what happened, but a day later it was all working properly.

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GSMUSIC: Hey RZ, Im not no upper class american, the gear I own is what I have special to me. My car sucks, my house sucks, my nieghborhood sucks. Does yours RZ? Does it?

rz-land