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 Post subject: stereo Mic problem
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:52 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Recently purchased Studio Projects LSD 2 dual capsule stereo mic. It works and sounds great when either cap is used by itself, but when both caps are wired up there is a high pitched squeal. The frequency of the squeal depends on what polarity patterns are switched. Three pairs of pres have been used to trouble shoot - all balanced connections. this mic has a dedicated wire, so I have been unable to change this out. Have a message into StudioProjects usa, (I live in Canada) but have not heard back yet. I know some of you guys use The LSD 2 and other StudioProject gear. This is one of the reasons for my purchase. Need to get this resolved before a couple of (paid to do it) upcoming choir recording sessions. both groups are basing travel plans on the audition disc I will produce for them. Done lots of this type of recording with other gear, but was looking forward to using the LSD 2. Thinking of lots of ways to use it in the Studio too, so i hope this gets sorted out. Any thoughts appreciated.

Byron


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:01 pm 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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How strange.........mine works fine. I bet it's the cable that's miswired somehow.

Guess I'm gonna quit recommending stuff. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:10 pm 
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don't worry about the recommendation Geno. The mic is perfect for the work I do. Everyone gets a lemon now and then. I've been lemmon free for some time. My AW1600 performed like a champ on a CD project we did last year - Many many hours of hard use. Since my last post, I was continuing to experiment. No improvement in the squeal, but I used the test tracks i'd done to create a mid side mix, - spectacular. I'm sure I'll get this issue sorted out. I'll call again for recommendations, as this is a great place to hear what others doing much the same as me have to say. I'll post to this thread when the issue is resolved. I have my suspicions about the cable too. It appears to be the weak link of an otherwise great piece of gear. It is a bit light, especially where it splits. I'll keep you up to date, as to how this gets handled.

Byron


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:58 pm 
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I'd contact Studio Projects if you think you have a problem. They have a sterling reputation in the customer service department.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:48 am 
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Yeah Byron , the proprietary cable is probably it's Achiles heel. IMO , I think it is way too long for the average studio. I try to hang the unused coils on a stand off the floor to keep people and amp casters off them.
I don't think the Y split is any less constructed than the average snake fan.

msg

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:59 am 
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Not the cord. Talked to Mr Brent Casey at pmiaudio. He designed the LSD2 he says. (called Studio project number from web site - as they did not respond to tech help message within 24 hours). He had me open housing and spread apart two little inducers (?) . these establish the proper voltages (?) for the switchable polarity patterns. He said if they are seated too close together they will oscillate. Squeal was gone then, but there was some white noise - enough to make the meters flicker - from the lower capsule. Another call to Brent. He thought moisture between the dual diaphrams. It has been humid here for the last week, and I did leave the mic out of its case overnight. Solution put the mic about 10 cm away from a light bulb for about 10 minutes - turn mic for another 10 - test - white noise gone. there is a little noise from both caps when pre gain is very high, I suspect from the pre, or perhaps the residual from the crappy Yamaha pres, as i was pushing my outboard pre through the 1600. Geno, did your case have one of those little silicon filled envelopes ( to control humidity) when it was shipped to you? Mine didn't. Many electronic items have this. I think I'll put one in the LSD2 case. Hope this solves my issues. I like the mic. the service from Studio Proj. was great, as I got to talk to a real, knowledgable person.

I'll post here if the problem recurs, but for know it is onward and upward.

Chow

Byron


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:38 am 
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yes mine was packed with silica gel

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 Post subject: Re: stereo Mic problem
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:55 am 
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Still using and enjoying my Studio Projects LSD2. I purchased a T3 as well. Both capture a very true sound.

I was recording a twelve string tonight, and set the dual cap LSD2 2 feet in front of the player in an XY set up. Both caps were set to figure 8 configuration. They were not aligned at a perfect 90 degrees, but rather rotated some what less so that one diaphram pointed at the bridge, the other at the twelfth fret. (I was careful not to completely rotate the cap, so as to reverse the orientation of the diaphram). When I listened back I had to reverse the Phase of one track to get the bottom end information. I thought that this type of coincident mic minimized phase issues to a large extent. This is not the first puzzling phase experience I've had with this mic. Just wondering if it is normal. Insights welcomed.

Byron

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 Post subject: Re: stereo Mic problem
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:45 pm 
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As I said earlier , it is possible to mechanically reverse phase this tricky mic. Without carefully looking at the dots on the case it is physically possible to set them 180 out of phase. another rare possibility is that one capsule is wired backwards in the plug. If the phase issue is consistant then you might want to consider swapping the hot/cold signal wires in one XLR plug. Correcting the phase in the mixer seems to be the simple answer in your case. So far I have not experianced any of the issues you have with mine.

msg

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 Post subject: Re: stereo Mic problem
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:18 pm 
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Thanks Geno. I was hoping you would respond. I was careful not to reverse orientation. I will do a few more tests, and then contact Studio Projects if it seems there may be a wiring issue. I do like the repproduction quality of the mic, but one should not have to rely on phase reversing on the board to compensate for improper wiring. I'll let you know when I establish what is happening.

regards,

byron

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 Post subject: Re: stereo Mic problem
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:27 pm 
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Could it be the distances between the mic and the two areas of the guitars are just the right distance to cancel each other out? If so, moving the stereo mic itself to one side or the other might correct that.

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 Post subject: Re: stereo Mic problem
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:03 am 
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I guess you could rotate the upper mic 180 degrees and see if that fixes it. if so then the capsule is wired backwards.

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 Post subject: Re: stereo Mic problem
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:41 pm 
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Thought of that, but haven't done the test as yet. Is there an equal chance that it is the dedicated seven pin wire as opposed to the wiring in the capsule itself? Would rotating the cap isolate the problem to the cap, or just prove the nature of the situation?

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 Post subject: Re: stereo Mic problem
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:59 pm 
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Thanks Corey,

I will move the mic somewhat to see what happens. I do have petty good idea of what phasing issues entail in a large space, from the variety of ensemble, direct to stereo recordings I've done over the years, but as yet I have not found a diffinitive source of info (absolute dos and don'ts) on the subject.

Seeing as the dual cap mic is coincident, are you suggesting a sort of backwards 3 - 1 rule? (separated Mics should be placed a minimum of 3xs the distance from the sound source.) It is possible that the center line of each mic's pattern, and the distance between the bridge and the twelfth fret would have formed an equilateral triangle at the distance the mic was from the instrument. For the take that gave me the problem, the caps were both set to figure 8. Would that also contribute to the phase interaction during the capture?

Perhaps recording with a coincident pair is not as free from phasing issues as i had once thought.
Any pointers, or links to further resources welcomed.

thanks

Byron

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 Post subject: Re: stereo Mic problem
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:54 pm 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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the wiring error(if there is one) could be at either connector. the easiest to fix would be the XLR on the suspect mic.

turning the capsule backwards will tell the tale

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 Post subject: Re: stereo Mic problem
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:21 am 
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Geno, Just had a brainwave. I've perhaps have had the capsule on my LSD2 turned backwards all along. The bottom cap has a series of dots, used to orient the top capsule as you rotate it, as you of course know. The top capsule has only one dot. The control switches for the top capsule are on the back of the case, so I have been orienting its single dot to the back of the case. ( I think because it travels through 270 degrees, combined with the positioning of the controls to the rear, I assumed I should start at the "zero" point of the travel.) If you orient the top cap's dot to the front (logo) side of the case, the top cap will rotate 90 degrees clockwise, and 180 degree counter clockwise.

Do you orient your top cap's dot to the logo side, or the rear side of the mic's case? Seems silly, but I would have continued setting it up incorrectly forever probably, had we not had this conversation. Let me know if you think I've solved my dilemma.

Byron

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 Post subject: Re: stereo Mic problem
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:33 am 
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Byron wrote:
Let me know if you think I've solved my dilemma.

Byron


Yes

MRSKYGOD wrote:
it is possible to mechanically reverse phase this tricky mic. Without carefully looking at the dots on the case it is physically possible to set them 180 out of phase

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 Post subject: Re: stereo Mic problem
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:04 am 
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Thanks for the attention you've given this. I know you had cautioned me earlier, but I had somehow convinced myself that I was setting it correctly, with the top caps orienting mark facing its controls on the backside. Almost all my work with it to this point was in a Mid-Side configuration using the top cap as the figure 8. I was lining up the dots carefully, but my mistake was not as revealing as with the XY I was trying the other night. It seems so obvious now that the dot would mark the front side - and that the front should face forward! Foolish me... Hopefully onward and upward from here.

Regards,

Byron

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 Post subject: Re: stereo Mic problem
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:20 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Byron wrote:
It seems so obvious now that the dot would mark the front side - and that the front should face forward! Foolish me...


I've never made that mistake ! :^o :^o

Finally glad you get it and everything's peachy.

On a side note somewhat related. I rewired my monitor rack a coupla months ago and noticed the oddly dramatic difference in my monitors performance when I coupled two pair. I usually mix with a pair of Studio Precision 8's and a pair of older Tannoy 6's. The Tannoys keep my SP8's honest in the mids. When I separated the two pairs remotely I noticed they sounded familier again. Together , thin , less volume. The culprit ? You guessed it. The Tannoys were outa phase with the SP8's. Reversed the bannana plug speaker plugs and now everything's where it should be. You can betcha bootie I marked them on the back for next time.

MSG

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