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 Post subject: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:42 pm 
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Mr. Blues
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Hi,

never before thought about the need of an extern preamp. Now this happened:

The last 2 evenings I tried to mic my acoustic guitar for a fingerpicking song. Not played at loud level. I used 2 Rode NT5 condenser mics for this, 1 mic pointed to the 12th fret 40 cm away and 1 "over my shoulder". To get a low input level (-18 - -12db) I had to raise the preamps of my AW nearly up to max and I am getting a lot of hiss. Never before I had to raise the preamps so much. Hiss level is awful loud.

My finance chief listened to the noisy recording and gives his ok for buying a preamp. Seems the ART MPA Gold is a good pre as far as I read here. Will trust Genos advice about the ART.

Am I right that this hiss problem will be fixed, if I use a decent preamp like the ART?

Seems a cheesy formating will not solve the problem! :mrgreen:
Thank you
Andreas

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:09 am 
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Marker Magician
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A pre is what you need for that type of guitar tracking. Lots available. The sky is the limit price wise, but there are lots of inexpensive pres too. I use and like an ART tube DI style pre. Do you want one or multiple channels? That is perhaps a good place to start the selection process. I have a Presonus Bluetube - 2 channel I like - Quite OK tracks- but I am not even tempted to rave about it. Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:17 am 
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The Reverend
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Quote:
ART MPA Gold


that's what I got...don't really know how to use it to its fullest extent, but I do like the warmth...i just fiddle with the knobs and hope for the best...

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:24 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Not real big on Presonus myself. Noisy and hardly any tube gain , similar to the older Behringer tube pre that's collecting dust in the rack. I really like the MPA gold tuber. Good bang for the buck. I think it's as good as my Focusrite. I've gone back to recording synth tracks reamping them and mixing in with a direct signal. If you can find one used , a Digitec VTP-1 (tuber) . Lotsa clean gain amd a little taste of tube warmth. The next step up for me is is a pair of Universal Audio 610's that win the quiet/gain contest but that's a lot more money. Those things will almost blow red LEDs up and let your hear how crappy your room sounds. One killer benefit from the 610's is they make ANY microphone sound very expensive.

msg

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:13 pm 
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Mr. Blues
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Hi again,

got the ART MPA some hours ago, after reading the good critics here in the forum. Great help, thanks guys =D> .

My first impressions: Great warm tube sound with vocals and acoustic guitar without EQing anything (will try this later), also a lot of gain without or with only little hiss at extreme levels.

Seems to be a big bang for the bucks! Have to go on trying the different settings. I like to have the input impendance to max with my Rode mics to get a really warm sound. Is this ok for you, Geno? Any hints and tipps for settings will be welcomed?

At weekend I will try NOS-tubes, have a lot of old Telefunken, Brimar, AEG, JAN and Mullards laying around for my guitar amp. Will post the results if anyone is interested.

Andreas

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:27 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Quote:
Seems to be a big bang for the bucks! Have to go on trying the different settings. I like to have the input impendance to max with my Rode mics to get a really warm sound. Is this ok for you, Geno? Any hints and tipps for settings will be welcomed?


Set the mic MPA impedance control ten times the published mic. impedance you are using. Set a low Z like an SM57 (300 ohms) to 3000 ohms on the MPA. A Rode NT-1 condenser , on the other hand , shows 100 ohms , so set the MPA to 1K.

Hope that helps.

msg

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:46 am 
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The Reverend
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Quote:
Set the mic MPA impedance control ten times the published mic. impedance you are using. Set a low Z like an SM57 (300 ohms) to 3000 ohms on the MPA. A Rode NT-1 condenser , on the other hand , shows 100 ohms , so set the MPA to 1K.



how about a AKG 1000 condenser or a Blue mics Blackball mic... #-o :?

dos margaritas para mi...

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:15 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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AKG .........200 ohms........set the MPA to 2K.

Blue 8-Ball weighs in at 50 ohms , set the MPA to 500 ohms.

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:09 am 
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The Reverend
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mrskygod wrote:
AKG .........200 ohms........set the MPA to 2K.

Blue 8-Ball weighs in at 50 ohms , set the MPA to 500 ohms.


gracias senor...we've moved to direct Agave shots... good night!

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:38 am 
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Mr. Blues
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Thank you, Geno. I will do it like you said!

Andreas

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:59 pm 
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Mr. Blues
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Hi,

just as an info for other MPA owners. After reading a lot good news about NOS tubes in the ART I did an excessive tubeswap this afternoon. Used a matched pair of rode nta mics for A/B ing the tubes directly. Result is that the NOS Brimar, Telefunken, AEG, Mullard, MAZDA and RFTs dont sound better for my ears with the ART. They made the gain lower, hiss at same level and muddy sounding. The cheap chinese tubes sounds best in this Preamp.

Then I tried this chinese tubes in V1 and V2 of my handwired Fender Tweed clone and there they sound like crap, no low end, brittle highs and bad chrunc sound. All NOS tubes sound amazing with little difference in sound in this guitar amp.

Learned my lesson, had better used the time to hit the record button ...

Andreas

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:34 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:49 pm 
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Mr. Blues
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Hi,

JM wrote:
It was worth it in the end. Now you know, and won't always wonder "what if?"


thats right. Seems you know about me :oops:

Want to post my experience, so others here can save theit time for better things!

Andreas

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:36 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Hey you didn't burn yer fingers or touch a charged cap didja ? That's a good thing as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:41 am 
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Mr. Blues
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Hi,

mrskygod wrote:
Hey you didn't burn yer fingers or touch a charged cap didja ? That's a good thing as well.


No I did´nt 8) .

Dont want to rub the printing on my NOS Tubes away, so I always use some cloth to touch them. The caps are far away from the tubes, so no danger if you are carefull. Seems to be build solid, only the instrument inputs on the front are directly soldered to the pcp. Transformers are well isolated in the edge, ptis are from alpha, all soldering points on the caps are isolated. Well done chinese! =D>

If I work in my guitar amp I always discharge the caps before.

Andreas

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:41 pm 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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A lot of people don't know to not leave fingerprints on the tube which can cause weakness in the glass during heat cycles later on. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:37 pm 
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Blackbeer wrote:
had better used the time to hit the record button ...

Andreas


Wow you have a record button! :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:05 pm 
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Mr. Blues
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RZ wrote:
Blackbeer wrote:
had better used the time to hit the record button ...

Andreas


Wow you have a record button! :shock:



hi Ron,

after studie the manual a lot of times I found it. Seems to be a hidden secret of the AW like the adult section of the forum :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:52 pm 
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It's the G's Red Light District.

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 Post subject: Re: Preamp advice please
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:28 pm 
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Mr. Blues
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Robbie wrote:
It's the G's Red Light District.

:laughing3:

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