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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:09 pm 
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City Slicker

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Hiya

I've just started mixing down some recordings done yesterday by linking two AW16G's together

I've got a problem that is just emerging and that is the pitch and speed of the music seems to change. It's slower (and lower pitched) when i first start the recorders and then speeds up during the song. Also if I stop the Slave recorder the pitch lowers on the master????

After about a minute the speed and pitch seems to increase to the normal recorded speed

They are running in sync but obviously if the pitch is changing throughout the song then the material is unusable.

Can anyone please tell me what the problem is and how to correct it?

They are linked by using a midi cable and a digital optical lead.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:49 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Hi Paulos.

This is strange indeed. We need more info. Was this song OK earlier? Have you done anything special in the meantime? Have you checked the vari pitch settings (utility button - D.IN-HDD menu - middle of the screen)? Are there any problems with other projects (songs)? When you export to wav, how does it sound? When you disconnect the G's and disable the master/slave settings, how does it sound? Have you tried to record hip hop?

R

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:18 pm 
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City Slicker

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Robbie wrote:
Hi Paulos.

This is strange indeed. We need more info. Was this song OK earlier? Have you done anything special in the meantime? Have you checked the vari pitch settings (utility button - D.IN-HDD menu - middle of the screen)? Are there any problems with other projects (songs)? When you export to wav, how does it sound? When you disconnect the G's and disable the master/slave settings, how does it sound? Have you tried to record hip hop?

R


It's got me baffled :shock:

I'm really gutted as i'm using these recorders to do location recording as another facet of the studio I run, i already had one and i thought it would be an inexpensive and hassle free way to enable me to do it.

I'll try and answer some of your questions. I recorded the material yesterday which was done live (hence the need for 16 inputs). The music was Acid Jazz/Funk/Fusion.
The Vari Pitch is at 0 and dissabled. I've just exported the WAV from a test I did (explained in next paragraph) and it was exactly a semi tone lower in pitch!!

I've just done a couple of experiments. I've diconnected the slave and reset the settings on the master and ran it as a single unit. The music had pitch variations exatly inline with tempo variations, just as if you slowed down an analouge tape machine. I think that these variations must have occurred during the recording process somehow. To check this I've just recorded about a minute of guitar playing E with 4 mics (2 inputs in to each machine), and the same thing happens, either when linked or separate when playing back.
Some kind of compensation must be present when recording I think.

The two units are exactly the same and are connected as suggested using a midi cable/a TOS cable and setting the MIDI as directed i.e. MTC


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:13 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Did I miss this or did you actually swap one recorder for the other (master/slave) ?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:53 am 
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City Slicker

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mrskygod wrote:
Did I miss this or did you actually swap one recorder for the other (master/slave) ?


Yes I have tried swapping them over so the other one is the master and so on.

It's really got me baffled. Any help would be greatly appreciated and could save me a lot of money :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:15 pm 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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This one really bugs me. Is there a possibility there is an effect active on one of the machines ?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:25 pm 
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City Slicker

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It's really bugging me too :(

I have recalled int. data on the scene library so no effects are present.

I have tried running both recorders as single units and in both cases the music was slower and lower in pitch than the actual performance. If left playing at least the pitch/speed remained constant, even if a whole semi tone lower and a fair bit slower!

If I reconnect the recorders to run one as master and one as slave, after around 50 seconds of playback the music speeds up and returns to normal pitch. Weird!!

I have bought a better quality TOSlink (optical) lead and i'm going to try some test recording with that in a minute.

I've also been on the phone to the tech guy at Yamaha UK who was very helpful but he said that they should work together without problems.

He is sending me a CD just to make sure that the firmware is up to date to see if that makes a difference.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:39 pm 
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Newbie
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Read about this in a book I was reading during my holidays... they described corrupt time-code... and this sure sounds like what they were talking about :?

Have you got any possibility to export the two songs to a PC and see if the problem goes away in Cubase or somthing the like? If yes, it has to be some setting on the G(s), if no... it might be a hardware or software bug...

Sorry, can't point you to a definite answer either :? .

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:55 pm 
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Harry the Spaceman
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Are you using Optical and just one MIDI cable? Any boxes inbetween on the MIDI pathway?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:07 pm 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Also check the offset parameters on the midi page. Just for grins make sure they are the same. I'm sure you've already checked the vari-pitch and made sure it's set at 44.1.

The statement made about the recorders acting up singularly kinda points in thses directions.

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Last edited by mrskygod on Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:09 pm 
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City Slicker

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Thanks for your help guys much appreciated for taking the time to help.

I've tried exporting the WAVS to Cubase and they all play slow/lower pitch on Cubase so it must have been altered during the recording stage?

The recorders are connected directly to one another using one midi cable and one high quality (that i've just bought, to eliminate the original cable i was using) TOSLINK/Optical cable.

I have just had another go at some test recording and the only way I can get it to record at the correct speed/pitch is if I dissable the optical lead and just have the recorders connected via midi. If I play the tests back with the units acting as one unit (i.e. without the TOS cable) then everything is fine. Except I can't hear the mix that was recorded on the slave as the digital cable/patch in is dissabled

When i enable the digital patch in again to enable me to hear what was recorded on the slave or to do a mixdown then the pitch goes to cock again.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:10 pm 
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City Slicker

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mrskygod wrote:
Also check the offset parameters on the midi page. Just for grins make sure they are the same.


The offsets are both at 0000000000


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:12 pm 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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now I suspect the software

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THE MUSIC IS DOWN IN HERE
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:19 pm 
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Newbie
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Hmmm... I'm just wildly guessing... but if there was something similar to Time Code sent through the opticals... the two combined codes might produce the glitch... by driving the machine crazy... but heck...

Just for shits and giggles... did you ever try to hook them up fully dual... meaning two toslink-cables and two midi cables...?

Shouldn't change a bit... me thinks... but might as well try that as well :? .

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:20 pm 
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City Slicker

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mrskygod wrote:
now I suspect the software


By software do you mean that they have different versions?

Do you think that's why the Yamaha guy is sending me a CD?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:29 pm 
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City Slicker

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MicEater wrote:
Hmmm... I'm just wildly guessing... but if there was something similar to Time Code sent through the opticals... the two combined codes might produce the glitch... by driving the machine crazy... but heck...

Just for shits and giggles... did you ever try to hook them up fully dual... meaning two toslink-cables and two midi cables...?

Shouldn't change a bit... me thinks... but might as well try that as well :? .


I'll try it now. I've tried using two midi cables and it didn't make any difference. Worth a go though


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:36 pm 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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two optical cables won't make any difference. but if you are using only one midi cable then you are using midi clock to sync. Two midi cables are required if you use MTC or MMC. (the two units must "handshake")

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:56 pm 
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City Slicker

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I've just tried two midi cables connected again and it's made no difference.

On the test recordings i've just done with the Digital Patch In disabled they are at the correct speed.

However, as soon as i connect the digital lead and enable it the recordings that were ok without the patch start speeding up and going sharp.

I've just tried recording again with the Dig Patch enabled and the same thing as previous attempts happens and the pitch is all over the shop.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:20 pm 
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paulos wrote:
However, as soon as i connect the digital lead and enable it the recordings that were ok without the patch start speeding up and going sharp.


This is positively whacky... :? !

Not sure about this... but I don't think the sample rate can be adjusted on the G, can it (44.1 vs 48 or somthing the like...)?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:38 pm 
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City Slicker

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MicEater wrote:
paulos wrote:
However, as soon as i connect the digital lead and enable it the recordings that were ok without the patch start speeding up and going sharp.


This is positively whacky... :? !

Not sure about this... but I don't think the sample rate can be adjusted on the G, can it (44.1 vs 48 or somthing the like...)?


The only way as far as i'm aware of adjusting the sample rate is by the vari pitch control. This is dissabled automatically when the digital patch is enabled.


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