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 Post subject: Panning
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:08 pm 
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How do y'all like to pan the instruments in the mix?

When I record keyboard or drum machine, they have stereo outs, so I just use two inputs and record to one of the matched tracks (13-14, 15-16) and use the default pans of extreme left and right (L16, R16). So I don't change anything there in the mix.

I pan the lead vocal center. Bass center also.

But for single instruments -- guitar, harmonica, etc. what do you do?

For rhythm acoustic guitar, I'm trying a technique where I copy the track to another with a 20ms delay. Then I pan the original track to around 9:00 and the delayed track right to about 3:00 (L10-12 and R10-12 on the G). It seems to make it sound fuller, and keeps it from competing with the center vocal track. Lead instruments I'll pan to one side or the other around 10:00/2:00 or 10:30/1:30. But I'm hardly a pro and therefore open to suggestions.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:41 pm 
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A really good pair of monitors really helps on the mixdown panning. Non-stereo sources are recoreded dead center in my studio. Then I can place them wherever they sound best to my ears for mixdown.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:59 am 
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I don't use too many 'rules' as far as panning goes. After all, it's part of the luxury of having this cool gear to be able to experiment. As far as acoustic guitars, I'll either record it with 2 mics or just record the same part twice, maybe throw a capo on to get a different voicing in the 2nd guitar.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:10 pm 
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rules..!?
i don't need no stinking rules!
but i do tend to pan the rhythm bed pretty much the same way every time.
bass drum 1 to the right, bass guitar 1 to the left. toms usually go 2, 3, 4 o'clock. snare sometimes center - sometimes left or right.
like the sky god - i fiddle around to things start to sound interesting (to my ears).
then i offer it up to be told the guitars are being squashed by the bass.

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 Post subject: comment
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:29 pm 
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"bass drum 1 to the right, bass guitar 1 to the left" -- I find that interesting.

Anybody ever try what I do with the rhythm acoustic guitar?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:54 pm 
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yes, i 've done that with guitars and vocals.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:53 pm 
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mcnewsxp wrote:
rules..!?
i don't need no stinking rules!
then i offer it up to be told the guitars are being squashed by the bass.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:04 am 
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Denver - I always double acoustic guitar in the way you describe but use a much shorter offset around 10ms. Gives a very full sound for a strummed instrument, especially in a sparse mix section. I also double this way for any lead lines eg guitar solos.

For other than acoustic guitar, you can detune the offset track to taste for a fuller effect (about 3cents+or-) and then pan hard left/right - excellent for brass stabs. Highly recommended technique that I learned here.


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 Post subject: panning
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:31 am 
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A professional engineer gave me some good advice. He suggested I import cd's that I think sound good into the G, and listen to how they were mixed. (Duh, you'd think I would have thought of that myself.) So I did.

I was surprised that most songs seem to have panned all the instruments right down the middle. Especially acoustic guitar-based songs with minimal instrumentation. I would have expected the pro's to have stuff panned across the left-to-right spectrum; a "wall of sound". But it's not. It seems they use EQ and volume levels to get separation among instruments more than panning.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:33 pm 
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As a drummer I tend to pan the kit to match what I hear while playing - snare at 3 left, bass drum center (or 1 right). I tend to put a close mic either right above the floor tom near the right tomtom or above my ride, but aimed at the floor tom (depending on the nature of my part). At any rate, I pan this at about 7 right. Any other "overhead" mics (rarely actually placed overhead in my case) I try to pan to reflect their placement. Since I usually bounce the drums to an open stereo track, I'll often "squeeze" down the drum panning later by ratcheting down the panning of that track.

It drives me nuts when people pan drums from the listeners perspective (as most people do) because I feel like its backwards. (Ah, another self centered drummer...)

The only other panning quirk I have is I tend to copy the rhythm guitar track to another track, hard pan them both and offset the respective tracks by a fraction of a second and tweak the eq. (Some of y'all recommend a slight pitch shift - I'll have to try this). This is to put the rhythm guitar way on the outside so it sounds like it is all around you. It opens up space in the middle for lead guitar or (rarely in my case) vocals. Again, sometimes I'll bring these tracks toward center if they seem to distracting hard panned.

On the topic of hard panning and drums, check out the first song on the Stereolab album Margerine Eclipse for a gorgeous example of doubled drums, each hard panned left and right.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:39 pm 
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Painter wrote:
It drives me nuts when people pan drums from the listeners perspective (as most people do) because I feel like its backwards. (Ah, another self centered drummer...)



Did you ever try just turning around with your back to the speakers?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:37 pm 
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CareyCorson wrote:
Painter wrote:
It drives me nuts when people pan drums from the listeners perspective (as most people do) because I feel like its backwards. (Ah, another self centered drummer...)



Did you ever try just turning around with your back to the speakers?


Only if it's a lousy song...

:o

I really only notice if I'm listening with headphones or if it is a really wide spread (I suppose I could just reverse the headphones, but I refuse to compromise with a world that isn't drummer-centric [-( ).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:04 pm 
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Painter wrote:
It drives me nuts when people pan drums from the listeners perspective (as most people do) because I feel like its backwards.


Yeah, me too. I'm a guitarist, but apparently I play just enough drums to be dangerous. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:45 pm 
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JM wrote:
Painter wrote:
It drives me nuts when people pan drums from the listeners perspective (as most people do) because I feel like its backwards.


Yeah, me too. I'm a guitarist, but apparently I play just enough drums to be dangerous. :D


Hehehe.

You're like a ninja who's also a samarai!


:banghead: (karate emoticon)


Let's just say that I own a guitar. As far as playing guitar... we won't go there!

-paint

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:46 am 
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I don't really have any energy this morning to get into it, though I'd love to chase it up later:

I pan most of my stuff either hard right or left or dead center. Then I create my panorama using reverbs and delays, panned to the opposite side.

I find that panning only moves things around. Panning the reverbs of the elements creates space.


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