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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:57 am 
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City Slicker

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:36 am
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Machine type: AW16G
Hello peoples, and thanks for your time.
I am near the end of a project (done on my AW16g) that will be for commercial dowload/compact disc and would like to know the best way to compile the tracks into a completed audio soundtrack while maintaining the highest quality of sound. This is not a music project but a soundtrack for addressing a particular issue that some folks deal with. There are about 70 tracks (5 to 60 seconds long each), that need to be separated by anywhere from 30 to 60 seconds of silence.
Someone recommended to send all the tracks in .WAV format into iTunes and create the final audio soundtrack there, establishing the desired order of the tracks and the desired time between the tracks. Can I also accomplish this right in the AW16g?
All the tracks are complete now, (I used the mastering presets and am content with the results), I just need to get up and running with the options available for creating the final audio file, CD, soundtrack etc... as it will be bought and heard (CD and dowloadable) and want to do this while maintaining the highest quality as possible.

Thank you!
Phil Donovan


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 5:16 am 
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Marker Magician
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
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Machine type: AW2400
You can do this on the G. Are all your files in one project, or are they in separate files? This will affect the way you do it. Having them in one project is definitely easier to deal with for this type of compilation. You can use the "marker" option within CD at once to accomplish your goal.

I can advise you once known how the files reside on your machine.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:20 pm 
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City Slicker

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:36 am
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Machine type: AW16G
Thank you for stopping by Byron.
Each of the 70 or so tracks (I call them sonic events) are a separate song. In other words, I created a new song for each of the 70 tracks. What I mean by tracks are the separate songs that have been mixed down and mastered onto one of the stereo V-tracks. I moved all the final "song" mixdowns to Vtrack 1 of the stereo tracks to keep things orderly. I've been refering to tracks as they will finally appear on a CD or MP3.
So far, the only way I can think to create the right amojnt of time between the sonic events is to go back and "Insert" the desired time into each "song" (sonic event). It would be nice to lay them all out on one stereo track and adjust the inbetween time in that kind of configuration. Is there a way to accomplish that I wonder? I'm definately not against importing all the "songs" in WAV format, into some program where I can do the final tweaking of song order and time. what would be your suggestion? I just want to be sure that all my steps maintain the quality of the original, and that I'm not adding in any bit errors, or negative artifacts to the soundtrack.

Thanks Byron, I do appreciate you working with me on this!
Really want to do it right!

Phil


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
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Hi Phil,

Not to get into Byron's sailing water, but if I understand correctly the best thing would be to do that post production on PC.

The most important reason is that if you want to burn multiple copies, you'll have to build the burn list over and over again. And even doing this once is a lot of work.

I'd burn an audio CD of all track using track at once, without the spaces, and import these in wav on PC using CDex. Then, using Audacity, I'd put them together, inserting an empty space where I'd want. Or you can use any program to burn an audio CD building the song list just once, pointing to an empty 30 second wav (to be created in Audacity - a very simpl task) between each song.

I know Byron - a man with lots of idea's, more often than not more resourceful than mine. I'd wait for Byron. :)

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:43 am 
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City Slicker

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Thanks for coming by Robbie. I cetainly could use a medium that would allow good flexibility in rearranging the order, changing the time between the tracks, and doing so with not much hassle. After all there are about 70 tracks, and new ideas for the structure of the entire soundtrack could easily change as I'm in the process of creating it.
So, let me see if I have this straight,
Create a CD of all the tracks in WAV format using track-at-once, dont bother with any spaces yet, and import that into Audacity where I can have the tools to rearrange the order of my sonic events, and set the time between them. I've heard of Audacity a thousand times now its time to see what it is. This sounds much better than trying to do it in the Aw16g machine. I do want all the flexibility I can have. I can picture wanting to create a number of different orders/times and audition them, change them and work toward the best one for the final version. I'll look into Audacity right away, see what thats all about.
Thanks guys, your helping me get much closer the end! I've put alot of work into this!

Thank you both!
Phil


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:22 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Machine type: AW2400
track at once is the way to go. Get all the tracks on to a disc. There will be two seconds of digital silence inserted between each song on track at once. Not on CD at once though.


Take this audio cd to Audacity and manipulate it to create on large audio file. Insert your desired spaces. Not familiar with Audacity, but if you can burn from that big file and create separate track regions (markers) for each as you desire, you are away to the races. If you can't you would have to save each as a separate file , create a burn list etc. etc.

You could import this large "mastered" file back onto the G into a new song. Get it to V! of the Stereo tracks. listen to it in real time and use the marker button to place markers at every spot you want a separate track created. Then burn with CD at once and enable "Marker" option.

Remember that no region can be less than 4 sec to be valid for this option.

At any rate you are in for some hours to accomplish your assembly work

Sorry for the late response. I was away for a couple of days, but saw some great bands whilst in Toronto.

Byron

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:11 am 
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City Slicker

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:36 am
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Favourite food: pizza
Machine type: AW16G
Good to see ya Byron, thanks again. I dowloaded Audacity and took a quick look at it last night. I haven't as yet figured out how to re-arrange tracks but, I much like the insertion of silence in the Generate menu. Nice.
A question, I think you are suggesting first making an audio CD, the kind that would play on a typical commercial player, correct? Is there any advantage or disadvantage to importing the tracks in WAV format as opposed to audio CD? I'm not sure if Audacity will rip a music CD into a WAV for editing. Well, I've got alot to do to learn about Audacity but I will say, you guys have opened up some great tools and options now for the creation of the final soundtrack.
Hey, glad that you had a good time in Toronto Byron. I sometimes wish I had more time to get out and see some good music. My main gig is my 11 and 14 yer old!
Thanks so much, this is great info!

Phil


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:58 am 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Location: Netherlands
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Hi Phil,

1) You can burn an audio-CD (which would play in any standalone audio CD player) and import it in CDex. CDex is free and easy to use. It'll write your audio in wav format (or in mp3 if you wish - but in this case I'd definitely go for wav because it's uncompressed). Then, import the wav in Audacity.

2) You can also export the stereo track to wav files on CD. That appears to be more simple, but I doubt it - you'll actually have to open each song in order to write the stereo track to wav (if memory serves).

CDR's are cheap nowadays, why don't you give both options a try. It'll help you better understand the work flow of the G.

hth
r

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Machine type: AW2400
Yes to what Robbie says. Exporting to wavs would be cumbersome with so many songs to "open > export> close repeat , repeat, repeat ...

Since you have the stereo mixes of each "sonic event", It is probably easiest and most economical to create an audio CD on the G. If you have done this before you will know that the "add" button and the jog wheel must be employed to "build" a list of tracks to be burned to your audio CD. This can all be done from a single song. Track at once puts two seconds of silence between each track. CD at once does not. this is outlined in the manual.

You indicated you would like to have control over how much time is between each event. I thought I heard you say that the the silences would themselves be separate tracks. That will put a lot of tracks on your final CD.

Read up on the marker option in CD at once workflow. Be aware there is a limit to the number of markers you can place in any one song (99 I think). .

Your final product will be burned once all the mastering work is done. When you have created the Audacity compilation, let us know. The G could be your most convenient way of creating the final "tracks" on the finished audio cd, utilizing the markers option in CD at once.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:45 pm 
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City Slicker

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:36 am
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Favourite food: pizza
Machine type: AW16G
Thank you for the advice Byron.
The silences will not be separate tracks, they will just be added to the end of each track to create the right amount of time between the tracks.
My other concern is, is there any audio quality potentially lost when a Music CD ( I guess Red book is the technical term) is "ripped" into a WAV file? I understand it is supposed to be just a transfer of bits but, I hear different things about timing things happening, jitter, errors on pits, missed read bits, things like that, and I'm not sure when and where they apply, and if that is an extra step that could compromise something, anything. You had recommended actually burning the tracks onto a CD using track-at-once, then ripping that into a WAV format compatable for Audacity. Just want to make sure I understand what your saying and that that process is "error free". I guess my greeness at all of this part of the process has got me a bit paranoid, and probably for no good reason!

Thanks Byron!
Phil


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:30 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:46 pm
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Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
Machine type: AW16G
Hi Phil,

Wav is an uncompressed, 44.1 kHz, dual channel, 16 bit PCM signal. And so is an audio CD. The only difference is the physical way it has been written.

So, if you "rip" (well... it's not exactly ripping) a commercial audio CD to wav you will have an exact copy.

The only thing you will have to take into consideration is that the wav may be off in timing just a fraction of a second, which hardly ever is a problem.

hth

r

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