The DijonStock Digital Home Recording Support Forum

I recently sent a PM to a new member who gave a brief account regardin the loss of his son, who was both bandmate and good friend. I sent him a song I had recorded with my friends after a similar loss they had experienced

I have been meaning to get around to establishing some place to store files and post links, as so many of you do. thanks to Beer's posting of his recent song I finally got around to establishing an accouint at 4shared.com. I hope to use it more often, as i haven't really posted music with any regularity.

this track is a swing band I recorded at the local town hall three weeks ago. Never recorded such a big group - this was a test of sorts, and charlie, the band leader, and I will talk about where to go from here. Hope you like it. the session had lots of issues -theirs and mine - but we did get some good moments. this track was the first of the night, so it is joined in progress (my levels issue) and there was some "get on the mic issues" (theirs) at first and on the trumpet break - but overall I was pleased enough to post it here for some of you to listen and comment upon, so I can develop with this kind of ensemble.

byron



http://www.4shared.com/file/78685348/d1 ... train.html

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Byron

First sorry to hear about the bad news and I bet he appreciated your efforts with the song and the spirit in which you gave it. Onto the music...

Byron, if that's a first go for you. I'd call it superb. What a nice job you did! So I want details...how many players? What instruments? How'd you mic..etc? Good players too! I love hearing the audience after the little solos...classic.

Very Very Nice Byron! FIVE BEERS.

-= Beer

PS. If you want a nit, I'd work on some definition on those drums. The instruments really sounded nice.

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I LOVE THIS!!! Ted Stevens, 82-year-old US Senator from Alaska and chairman of the Senate Committee on Science, Commerce and Transportation, for explaining in a speech how the Internet actually works: “It’s a series of tubes.”

I agree with all of Beer's comments and after listening my first thought was "how did he mic this?". I'd add that the recording has good depth which is sometimes hard to do in a live venue.

Gary

Hi Byron,

here are the 5 beers Beerosaur promised to you ...


Listened to the recording with closed eyes and I can see the whole band placed just before me from left to right, from front to back. You have placed them perfectly and also catched the live atmosphaere at a decent level. Great great recording for my ears.

I cant find anything to critism with one exception: the guitar solo is a bit too loud and bassy, more on the muddy side, but seems to be the natural sound like it is played.

Would be glad if you share more details about this excellent recording with us. Come on tell us your secrets, man ...

Andreas

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Blues aint nothing but the blues!

I see ten, or is that my alcoholic condition?

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Don't judge the coffee by its cup.
The proof of the cheese is in the eating

Thanks guys. I thought a while about the micing. I have done some from the floor recording before, but not this big. This band has been in existance for some time, and the personnel has changed over the years, but recently ( in the past year) there have been some bigger than usual changes. The player all have some connection to my hometown area, but some guys drive a fair distance for gigs, rehearsals - due to work, marriage etc. - a few were recently students too. - many are current or former music teachers - the bass player owns a cottage by the lake (Huron) here and he resides in Ann Arbor. The age range is 28 > 70, I'd say. Seventeen players + 2 vocalists

They are -
5 sax - (bari to soprano).
4 trombones - (3 regular slide +1 bass trombone)
4 trumpets - (coronets, b flat, etc.)
stand up bass - with pickup to a very small, yet powerful enough, roland bass amp
Jazz (archtop) guitar - through a standard fender amp
roland keys -amped
full kit - well tuned, played with brushes mostly
2 vocalist that night - so there was a PA running

Mics -
4 mics from PA - one per vocalist, so off during the recording you heard. the other two were owned by the band and placed on stands within the sections - some sort of old AKG early condensers - they use them in gigs for a soloist to step up too - these mics had some sort of ground loop issue I was unable to solve so I ended up trying to noise-reduce these tracks in post production- (so as to have quiet signal, when needed) - these 4 signal went both to the PA and to my recorder from their board's insert points by inserting the patch to the first click of the insert hole.

2 mics (2 in one actually - Studio Projects LSD2 - Geno encouraged me on this mic, as I had no experience with it before I got it a year ago)- hung from the hall's lighting bar about 30 feet out from stage - in a Mid - Side config. The side mic was later doubled to create the matrix. These signals form the foundation of the mix and provide the depth Gary observed.

2 mics in XY (AKG 535 - great mics - these are the "go to " mics in my studio)- hung from arch of stage towards the left side - so up above the players - the centre axis of the 90 degreed pair pointed to the middle of the brass group - this means that the X mic was pointing at the rhythm section, (to the left of the brass) and the Y mic was pointing straight along the front row of the brass,(the seated sax players)

2 mics on kit - sm57 on kick drum - and another (can't remember) on a tight grouping of snare, high hat, and the small cymbal the drummer user frequently - I would mic the drums more thoughtfully next time.

3 cabinet mics - guit (sm58), bass (audio technica condenser)and keys (MXL - pencil style instrument condenser - not my favourite, but I was running out!

So this makes 13 signals - in post production, I copied the Side of the Mid-Side and added the noise reduced spot mics to the bunch, so when it comes to mixing there are 16 signals.

Whew!!! ... I'm actually glad you asked Beer, as i am not a good note taker, and now i have a record of how i set it up.

I agree with Beer, the weak link in the whole chain is the drum kit - I anticipated this - as I was setting up I thought uh oh, - but I was out of time and Mics - I did have channels available though - later to get enough percussion in the mix I had to bring up the XY pair, which made everything sound too ... something (roomy? stagey?) - so - I lost out in this regard.

The whole thing is done in 24 bits - using two machines AW1600 and AW2400. There were external pres were on the XY pair and the signals coming from their board's insert points were boosted too- there seemed to be lots of signal for the AW's pres for the rest.

We stayed after the concert and did a couple of takes with the female vocalist. She is a pro and will remain nameless for now, but I will try to post a version of "Crazy" - she actually toured as Patsy Cline in a tribute show some years back -

So if you have read this far - you get an award as Most Patient of the Month or something.

I am still waiting for one of our esteemed moderators to answer my objection in another thread. I questioned how Bob could dubbed me as the "Oldie of the Month" ( I thought he said I was the first ) and then DenverRob returns the very next day, and he is Oldie of the Month too! And this all happened in the same month!

Cheers,

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Byron

Oldie of another month!

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Don't judge the coffee by its cup.
The proof of the cheese is in the eating

Excellent man! I'll have to read and re-read when I get time. Off to Juneau in a few, but I was thinking the drums would almost certainly have to be close mic'd huh? Or you'll get all kinds of weird boominess and the kick will be sloppier than heck.

Where'd the beer smileys come from? I'll be needing them!

-= Beer

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I LOVE THIS!!! Ted Stevens, 82-year-old US Senator from Alaska and chairman of the Senate Committee on Science, Commerce and Transportation, for explaining in a speech how the Internet actually works: “It’s a series of tubes.”

Are those the big German Beers, or the little glasses they often serve us over here?

Yes, I see what you mean about the guitar - I think i would be able to do something about that - There is really not much EQ , but a high pass might help the guit a lot - that gives me something to do today!! thanks

I made a list of details etc - probably as you were listening - as your message was there when i last posted.

As promised I will post "Crazy" a little later today.

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Byron

5 for byron, 5 for me. I never let my friends drink alone

@Byron: this are "Normal" sized german beers, so you have to feel a little bit drunken right now

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Blues aint nothing but the blues!

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Don't judge the coffee by its cup.
The proof of the cheese is in the eating

Robbie,

thats the kind of beer glasses we gave our children to drink ...
No, just kidding!

Cheers
Andreas

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Blues aint nothing but the blues!

Yeah, the first thing Janneke said, at 14 months, was "Daddy give me my mug back!"

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Don't judge the coffee by its cup.
The proof of the cheese is in the eating

Well done Byron. I could hear the drums pretty good here (most of the time). The LSD-2 sounds good. Other than the horn guys moving around on the spot mics some you have captured them well. Guitar player is caught well too. I was surprised how well the LSD-2 caught the audiance although it's impossible to determine here if the AKG 535s were involved some with the audiance as well.

BTW , The horns are great especially the sax.

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THE MUSIC IS DOWN IN HERE
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Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.

thanks geno - the audience noise is mostly from the LSD2. the akg's are well back in the mix, but you notice it when they are gone. the drums are there, but I have to agree with others that they could be better defined. I am going to post a second song from the session in a moment. You will hear the brushes working the snare more pleasingly in it. also the hum I got from the spots that I had to contend with during the performance is gone, as the theater lighting was turned off, as the next one was tracked after the show. there is still a bit of extrarneous noise, as people were visiting, waiting for the players to finish up.

I surely do appreciate being able to air recordiings and ideas to the readers here. feedback such as andreas' comment about the low end qualities of the guitar are very useful - I tried to deal with that in the next one, and will go back to the first tune and see what can be done there too. I've got thick skin. I always listen on specific stereos as I develop a mix that I hope will be a keeper. Not only do I want to hear it at their place. I want to hear what they have to say re; balance of the tracks, what they wish they could hear more of etc. we don't get the chance to visit each others studios, but we tend to have good gear and we come to trust what it tells us - so why not share?

thanks for the listen.

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Byron

My first chance to listen. This is spot on good stuff! Reminds me of many nights listening to my F-I-L playing drums in his big band group years ago.

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GSMUSIC: Hey RZ, Im not no upper class american, the gear I own is what I have special to me. My car sucks, my house sucks, my nieghborhood sucks. Does yours RZ? Does it?

rz-land

Thanks again Ron. I'll try to post one called Loony Tunes soon.

Chow,

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Byron