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 Post subject: 'CD OR HD ACCESS ERROR'
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:32 pm 
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Lone Star

Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:03 pm
Posts: 9
Machine type: AW1600
Hi guys I'm brand new here so please be gentle !!
I've had my AW1600 for 18 months now and after quite a steep learning curve - as expected - I love it. I have produced some great recordings both live and dubbed/layered and now know my way round it very well - I think !
I recorded a live (one mic) session the other evening as one song, as I would normally do. I then split the 'song' into individual stereo tracks and was transferring these to the C.D. drive 'track at once' as normal. I had 5 tracks transferred onto the C.D. which play on the machine but are not finalized, then went back the next day to transfer the rest of the tracks but am now getting an error message 'CD OR HD ACCESS ERROR' and the CD drive seems to be making more noise than normal. Ive tried a new C.D. and have de-fragd the machine to no avail, and when I try to finalize the disk I get 'UNSUPPORTED OR ILLEGAL MEDIA ?'
The recording was done in 24 bit, which shouldn't really make any difference to the C.D.writing, should it ?
Has anyone come across this problem before ? I suspect the C.D. drive has gone down, can these be replaced easily if this is the case or am I just missing something ?

Yours frustrated
Steve


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:47 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:46 pm
Posts: 5081
Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
Machine type: AW16G
Hi Steve,

We're always gentle. :)

Welcome to the forum.

It's possible your CD unit went south, but before drawing that conclusion, disconnect the aw1600 from any power source for a prolonged period of time - preferably hours. Why? In the end, the aw1600 is a microprocessor system with very sensitive digital circuitry, and peripherals (like the HD, CD, LCS screen, buttons knobs and switches, AD and DA convertors etc). A cold boot is what you need to make sure it isn't digital electronics in some kind of undefined state, sustained by electric charge coming from a power supply.

I recently read something about a replaced CD unit, a consumer product that turned out to fit and was very cheap to buy. I can't remember who it was, it's probably in the Using the CD Drive-section (click).

Undoubtedly there are other possible causes for this particular problem. Wait a bit and see if anyone else comes along. In the meantime, walk through the forum a bit.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:59 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3429
Machine type: AW2400
I'd try to back up my song folders via USB to a PC or some storage unit attached to your PC. Then I'd format the HD (Utility dialogue).

This is easy to do and fixes problems such as you have described in some cases. Hope it is not your HD.

Good Luck

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:02 pm 
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Lone Star

Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:03 pm
Posts: 9
Machine type: AW1600
Thanks for the reply Robbie,
I have had the machine disconnected for over a day and still the same. It's the noise that is making me think the drive is kaput as the noise came the same time as the fault message - lots of clicking then starts to 'whir' as normal but then stops and spits the C.D.out with the message. I hope I'm wrong and will wait to see if anyone else has a 'fix'.
I did read that someone here has used a Dell laptop drive, so that's maybe the way to go if it is shot.
Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:08 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
Machine type: AW16G
OK, try Byrons suggestion.

BTW I've heard CD units "scream" by false instructions from a microprocessor system even while the hardware was not faulty. But given the fact that you already did my suggestion this can't be the case.

Try Byrons suggestion. If that doesn't work, remove the CD unit, clean the contacts and reínstall.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:10 pm 
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Lone Star

Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:03 pm
Posts: 9
Machine type: AW1600
Thanks Byron,
Formatting will be my next move but I'll wait to see if anyone else has encountered this problem as I'll loss a lot of settings etc by formatting. I think its 'physical' more than 'digital domain' though, will keep you posted.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:13 am 
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Marker Magician
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3429
Machine type: AW2400
are you able to connect via USB? If so, when you back up your songs if your HD will cooperate, you will get a strong indication of the health of the drive.

Perhaps you have already tried this, but if not
connect via USB, drag and drop one of the AW's partitions to the desktop of the PC and it should copy - could take a few minutes. all songs and sttings will be saved within the song folders of each partition. after the format - drag individual songs to the new song folders on the AW, or replace the whole song folder. If the problem eminates from a corrupt song file, replacing them one by one may give insight into which song has gone bad.

How full is your HD? How do you know? Have you tried to optimize the songs. sometimes this will help. the aw does not have a good system for indicating precisely how much of the drive is occupied

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:03 pm
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Machine type: AW1600
O.K. I've formatted the machine and reinstalled the sample song and loop samples, this is all that is on the machine now. Still having the same problem - record stereo track - try to burn this to CD - machine spits CD out with same message - 'CD OR HD SYSTEM ERROR'.
Free space on drive G - 17.4 GB, free space on drive F 17.8 GB so plenty room I think.
Another problem I've just noticed today while playing with the sample song - if I solo a track - after a few seconds (intervals vary) the rest of the tracks switch themselves back on !! The same thing is happening if I switch tracks off - a few seconds then they switch themselves back on !!
Whats going on here ? I'm really hoping this isn't a hard drive problem but any sort of explanation would be more than welcome.

I bought this machine in October 2007 so less than 2 years old - anyone know what the warranty on the AW1600 is ? If its 2 years then I think it's back to Yamaha, if it's a year then it looks like money.

I'm in the U.k. the machine was bought from 'Sounds Live' in Newcastle, will have to contact them regarding the warranty I think.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:18 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Posts: 5081
Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
Machine type: AW16G
There must be a HD check in one of the menus, have you tried that?

Have you tried making a longer recording? Preferable 8 tracks simultaneously so the file size increases fastest. Then, to try the CD unit in a different situation than making and audio CD, make a backup.

Have you tried different brands of CDR?

Have you tried changing the burning speed and do you have the buffer underrun protection set to on?

Removed the CD unit and cleaned the contacts?

Have you tried reading from CD? Like importing an audio track?

This is what I think of from the top of my head... More idea's anyone?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:09 pm 
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Lone Star

Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:03 pm
Posts: 9
Machine type: AW1600
Have done the vast majority of what you suggest Robbie but no different. After the format I loaded the sample song (16 tracks) and loop samples from the factory CD, the machine did this no problem. Ran a disk check but nothing found. Tried different brands, changed burn speed and set underrun to on etc, still the same.
I haven't yet removed the CD drive to clean the contacts as I don't want to invalidate the warranty if the machine is still in warranty, and wouldn't really know how to remove it anyway.
Then there's this other issue with the machine switching channels back on after I've switched them off.
So still no further forward really.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:17 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Posts: 5081
Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
Machine type: AW16G
My gut feeling, although very unreliable, says it's not faulty hardware.

Look at the docs page http://docs.dijonstock.com, download the latest OS and update the firmware.

About the warranty: users are supposed to be able to mount the CD unit, so removing and re-installing won't invalidate it. Same goes for the software update.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:03 pm
Posts: 9
Machine type: AW1600
Will try the latest OS download next - is there any info about installing it on here ?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:36 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
Machine type: AW16G
I don't know, you could try the search feature. I think you have to write the file to a CD, and then turn on the machine with the CD in the unit so it'll recognize the update file on startup. But I'm not sure, never done it myself.

There's no harm in trying, though. It'll cost you a CDR.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:38 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:03 pm
Posts: 9
Machine type: AW1600
Thanks Robbie
The download came with instructions, have now installed the latest software - still the same.
Also when I try to back-up to CD I keep getting another message 'CHANGE MEDIA, PLEASE.' which I've done about 6 times but still getting the same message.
The machine is taking information from C.Ds OK (can import OK) but it doesn't seem to want to give any to CDs.

Think it may have to be a chat with Yamaha when I get time.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:29 am 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Posts: 5081
Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
Machine type: AW16G
I think a chat with Yamaha is in order. At least you have tried just about anything they could ask you to try.

Have you tried cleaning the CD lens with an air blower (don't touch the lens!)?

I checked the trouble shooting list in the manual, but the only thing that is in the manual about those error messages is what they mean - and what they mean is obvious. No solution, though.

BTW my remark about installing the CDR unit applies to the AW16G; when I bought it, the unit came in a separate package, so I had to install it myself (but before I could do that, the shop owned did it for me). There's nothing on installing a CD unit in the 1600, so I conclude it comes with the CD unit installed.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:50 pm 
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Mr. Blues
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Location: Germany
Favourite food: Sauerkraut ;-)
Machine type: AW2400
Hi,

Robbie wrote:
BTW my remark about installing the CDR unit applies to the AW16G; when I bought it, the unit came in a separate package, so I had to install it myself (but before I could do that, the shop owned did it for me). There's nothing on installing a CD unit in the 1600, so I conclude it comes with the CD unit installed.


Robbie, you are correct, the CD-unit is installed in the 1600.
Cleaning the lens is a good idea :idea:

Andreas

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:08 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Posts: 3429
Machine type: AW2400
Just had a quick read through this thread, so may be off, but re the channels switching on and off may have to do with the sample song, if that is what you are monitoring at this point. This demo song is full of scene changes. Go to the Tempo Map in the song list to confirm this. As you probably know, the last scene activated remains the operational setting, until such time as it is changed ( manually or by Tempo Map) This is why the Demo song is such a pain to many new users.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:32 pm 
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Lone Star

Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:03 pm
Posts: 9
Machine type: AW1600
Thanks all,
I will try cleaning the lens at the weekend, as that's about the only thing I haven't done yet, oh and remove the CD unit to clean the contacts, but for me I think it's bad to have to 'open' the machine up, its only around 18 months old and is very low mileage, surely it should be capable of a lot more work before 'open heart surgery' !!
I suppose it's like every other machine in the world - OK when its working OK, but a big pain in the ass when it's not.

Thanks again guys, I will keep you informed.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:51 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
Machine type: AW16G
I'd call a Yammie tech first before removing any screws.

SteveE wrote:
I will keep you informed.


Thanks!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:29 am 
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Lone Star

Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:03 pm
Posts: 9
Machine type: AW1600
Just a quick update - took the machine back to the shop where I bought it and they sent it away to Yamaha for repair as it was still under warranty, approx 6 weeks later, its back complete with new C.D. drive and is now working fine.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to the thread.

If you are experiencing these symptoms then it may well be your C.D. drive has gone down.


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