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 Post subject: preamp noise inquiry
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:07 am 
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Hello,

I have recently purchased an AW1600, and have found the internal preamps to be quite noisy when turned up high. I have done some reading on this within this forum, and found that this is a common issue with this product. I am just wondering if the noise that I am experiencing is normal, or if there might be something wrong with my unit.

My situation is this:
1. All 8 preamps make noise in the same manner, even when nothing is connected to them.
2. The preamps start to get noticably noisy when the gain knob is at about 2 or 3 o-clock, and from there on get much noisier very quickly.
3. When the gain is turned all the way up, or very near, the noise is a fairly loud white noise that sounds kindof like a waterfall.

I think that this noise is normal, but I want to make sure that it is before I just accept it. If it is not normal, I would like to know so that I can seek repair or something. Don't be afraid to ask for clarification on this noise, I will be happy to be even more specific...

Thanks everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: preamp noise inquiry
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:56 am 
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Mr. Blues
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Hi and welcome here,

what you described is absolut normal with the preamps. Same here with a aw1600 and aw2400 (just a little less noise with the aw2400). No problems here, because with condenser or dynamic mics I never had to raise the gain of the preamps so high to get this hiss.

If you have problems with that hiss, an external preamp may help.

Andreas

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 Post subject: Re: preamp noise inquiry
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:10 am 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Hi Fozz,

Welcome to our little forum!

As Blackbeer says, this is normal.

However most of the times it is not necessary to go any further than 1 or 2 o'clock.

If you found info on this forum about the hiss, you might also have found that, depending on the application, I disagree. Some time ago I had a number of mics on the test bench, a Rode NT1000 and a Rode NT1a (and more). I was able to get an ab-so-lute hiss free acoustic recording on the G, even without external preamps. The internal preamp was turned slightly passed 12 o'clock. Input levels were decent. So, a lot depends on what you put on the input of the preamps.

My conclusion was that if you turn the internal preamp past, let's say, 2 o'clock, you're already either doing something wrong or applying a workaround for a problem.

So, the preamps are totally and 100% workable.

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 Post subject: Re: preamp noise inquiry
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:07 am 
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Thanks guys! It's nice to have some reassurance that my unit is not malfunctioning. It's also nice to hear this from others who are dealing with the same product, or at least a very similar product from the same maker.

One thing I am surprised by is how most people are saying that I shouldn't need to turn the input gains up to or near the top. I am using a Studio Projects B1 condenser mic, and I think that I had to turn the gain up to around 2 o-clock to get a decent signal. I might be wrong about that though, maybe I was turning it unecissarily high. I was also spot miking an acoustic guitar, so the source is quieter, which may have something to do with it. I was probably recording at too high a level anyway though. With 24bit, I think it is generally recommended to record with peaks at -12dB, right? I think I was well above that : )


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 Post subject: Re: preamp noise inquiry
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:45 am 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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If you're recording many channels that go into a mix, -12 dB as a peak is good, even when you record in 16 bit. It could even be somewhat lower at 24 bit.

Condensor mics most of the times need an external preamp anyway, but it's no law (otherwise yamaha would not have put phantom power in the inputs).

BTW there's a difference in recording and playback. Where I could hear a slight hiss when recording (using a Rode NT1a), there was none whatsoever on playback. So I don't know where that hiss came from, but it was not recorded.

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 Post subject: Re: preamp noise inquiry
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:25 am 
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Mr. Blues
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Robbie wrote:
Condensor mics most of the times need an external preamp anyway, but it's no law (otherwise yamaha would not have put phantom power in the inputs).


I am using an MXL2006 condenser mic, and so far no problems with hiss or bad sound without using a preamp. When using a tube preamp for recording vocals or acoustic guitar it gives me a little bit more warmth but no dramatic difference in sound.

Quote:
BTW there's a difference in recording and playback. Where I could hear a slight hiss when recording (using a Rode NT1a), there was none whatsoever on playback. So I don't know where that hiss came from, but it was not recorded.


Same here with my past aw1600 and my aw2400.

Andreas

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 Post subject: Re: preamp noise inquiry
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:47 pm 
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TheFozz44 wrote:
The preamps start to get noticably noisy when the gain knob is at about 2 or 3 o-clock, and from there on get much noisier very quickly.

If you go much past 12 noon, Robbie will get really hungry and need his cheese fix. :wink:


Actually I really think the Yammie or any DAW for that matter need an external preamp period. As much as I'd love to say the unit is a one stop shop for recording, it's not. It has lots of merit in it's own right, but it also needs a little help along the way. Finding a nice preamp will be a huge benefit in creating cleaner pure sounding recordings.

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 Post subject: Re: preamp noise inquiry
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:53 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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RZ wrote:
Robbie will get really hungry and need his cheese fix. :wink:


Ria calls it a bug, but I prefer to see it as a feature.

RZ wrote:
Actually I really think the Yammie or any DAW for that matter need an external preamp period. As much as I'd love to say the unit is a one stop shop for recording, it's not. It has lots of merit in it's own right, but it also needs a little help along the way. Finding a nice preamp will be a huge benefit in creating cleaner pure sounding recordings.


I partially agree. You can do a lot of useful stuff without external preamps. However I agree that if you want more flexibility in the way you work or the sound, you want more solutions to problems, you want more options, you can't do without an external preamp. Lets say that an external preamp can't be missed in the toolbox.

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 Post subject: Re: preamp noise inquiry
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:09 pm 
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Sample Pad & Tempo Map Specialist
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I agree with Robbie...I've pushed the AW pres pretty hard and noticed no noise during playback...it is nerve racking the first couple of times you lay down a track that sounds through the headphones that it's coming in riding the back of the north wind, but you learn to trust... :lol:


Big surprise but I disagree about the necessity of external preamps....the 300 bucks I spent didnt improve the quality of my recording one bit...the only time I even use it anymore is to provide phantom power for my drum overheads...I could have done that a lot cheaper with those Art $30 pres....just like anything to do with recording everyone has an opinion and it usually differs from person to person...nuthin but love homies :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: preamp noise inquiry
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:36 pm 
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to each their own. I'm sure that you can go to pretty much any professional studo and find at least 1 preamp. Man can't live on the g alone.

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 Post subject: Re: preamp noise inquiry
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:52 am 
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I'll bet you find more preamps than g's :lol:


I'm not saying that there is never a reason for an external preamp...I'm just saying that a guy with a g recording in his living room would be better off spending his money on other things if he wants to improve the overall sound...

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 Post subject: Re: preamp noise inquiry
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:12 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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RZ wrote:
to each their own. I'm sure that you can go to pretty much any professional studo and find at least 1 preamp. Man can't live on the g alone.


Like tube preamps ? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: preamp noise inquiry
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:36 pm 
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Review Guru
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Quote:

Like tube preamps ? :lol:


thats a good thing im guessing? :)

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