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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:42 pm 
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Dude

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:27 pm
Posts: 19
Favourite food: Italian
Machine type: AW1600
Hello everyone, I've been scratching my head on this one. It states on P19 of manual under Mixer Section, item 5, that Faders 9/10-15/16 can control levels of Pad 1-4. I've been unable to find any information about what they describe as "changing the internal settings". I can bring up a page that shows Input 1-8 and Pads, but they are not active with the physical faders, which is what I'd like to be able to do. [it can be done with the jog dial but it's cumbersome, and leads one to believe it is possible]. What am I missing ?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:48 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Machine type: AW16G
If no-one beats me to it, I'll have a glance tomorrow. I have the G but I suspect it works the same for the 1600.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:23 am 
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Dude

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:27 pm
Posts: 19
Favourite food: Italian
Machine type: AW1600
Thank You, and Yes, they should work the same on that function [nothing else found in the manual of AW1600]. The AW1600 may have been revised by adding the GRID recording to the Sample Pad recorder[very easy to assemble and edit sample track], as it's not shown in the AG manual [does not appear to mention the faders 9-16 for pad tracks option], so this may not be as simple as I originally thought.

UPDATE: Don't know how I missed it, but very simply, P 170 Fader Flip is the answer [Preferences]. Should be better for use as quick Live Mixer also.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:06 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3644
Machine type: AW2400
You got it. Fader Flip very handy. I used the pads a lot when i worked on 1600. The grid addition was major too. Have to record to a click to make it seamlessly useful. I still have it for those pads and also the library on the input channels. If you have not looked at it you should. press and hold the input button until channel view appears and then toggle library button. ( hope I remembered that correctly) A bunch of presets that will point the way to many variations mainly for guitar, but use your imagination.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:49 am 
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Dude

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:27 pm
Posts: 19
Favourite food: Italian
Machine type: AW1600
Right on Byron. I was working my way through the Pad Track logic and using GRID, strengths and limitations [Also working with the Demo song that most dislike]. It does affect Scenes in some strange ways and feels like chasing ones tail around[a ghostly effect on settings from song to song anyway]. I've read many of your past posts, and you have a great handle on these machines and need for learning the logic]. For me, the Demo song is all about the challenges to truly learn how the machine manipulates data, screens, tempos, and other seemingly odd events. I'm using test songs, resetting to Scene 000, then starting with Faders only [Save to Scene 01], then onto EQ settings[Save to Scene 02], etc.... This brought me to the Pad Track volumes, which seems fine with the AW1600's updated features.

One thing I'm trying to do doesn't react as expected from Yamaha's description of "always in sync". Loops are set to slice [default for following song tempo], and the Pad Track will follow the chosen tempo. Problem is, if I change tempo after making this track, it won't sync to the new tempo. It appears that a final tempo map must be worked out prior to writing the Pad Track [a limitation for tempo of finished song]. Is there a trick here, or is this just a design limitation? After much head scratching, the Demo song was useful again here. Reset to a new tempo, Pad Track unsynchronized, then put it back to original tempo and it lines up properly again. Thank you, Ron[old analog guy in the digital world].

UPDATE: It appears that as the recording of Pad Track writes, it locks to absolute time, not meas/beat, which seems odd, but oh well. The workflow appears to be to plan ahead to save some hair pulling. Using the metronome, and/or simple Pad Track attempts until the song is really fleshed out well, and then locking into the FINAL Tempo Map. I can rewrite the Pad Track, add/edit lines in tempo Map to use up to 16 pads, BEFORE wasting time trying to lay down the full DRUMS PAD TRACK. [I must remember to write down a Pad Track map, just in case it has to be redone[changing tempo again, if critical to the feel]. This is what I've come up with for Workflow using Pad Sampler on AW1600, using step recording in the GRID. If there's something I'm missing, please set me straight.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:06 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
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Machine type: AW2400
It has been a while. I gave up on using the slice function as i could never get it to go as wanted/ expected. That said, If the samples loaded on to the pads are at the same tempo as tempo of the performance. and the peformances on the tracks is at the same tempo (bpm) And performance actual begins on Beat 1 (usually following some form of a count in), And the Tempo map has been adjusted to that BPM, then the grid aligns the material on Pads perfectly.

If using drum loops you could make sure they are at the proper tempo before you load them on to the pads. As i said, I could never get the slice function to make sense. So I assemble drum loops to create a patch for flying in on an old version of ACID Pro (which allows tempo adjustment). Then a wav is rendered at the proper tempo and this is loaded to the AW Pad. More usefully though i would usually assemble the drum track entirely in ACID Pro and then transfer it to a stereo Pair in the usual fashion. I did not use the pads to supply a complete rhythm (well i did on one project but it was a repetitive loop using only one pad, so not much of an example)

I would then use the pads extensively to increase overall track count as you can load patches you wish to "fly in", such a snare roll, or a guitar lick or a back vocal phrase etc. The grid flys them in, but the trigger is only on beat one, according to the grid. You can' fly them in on an off beat. I do not believe the grid relates to absolute time at all. the grid drops in only at beat one. if you need it to drop in on another beat, the patch placed on the grid need be created with silence on beat one and two if you want the sounds from the patch to appear on beat 3.

This all good stuff to utilize, but a frustrating learning curve for sure. The use of Scenes, controlled by the tempo map, is useful but fraught with work flow issues. I have written about them a lot in the past If you have several scenes and decide that the Bass, for e.g, is not loud enough, or needs a DYN setting tweak, then you have to go through each scene to do this adjustment in each scene. ther is no Global editing feature. this leads to much work and many potential pitfalls. also scene changes are instantaneous ( no morphing from one to the other) which leads to some obvious transitions. Ok often when switching from one section to another , such as verse to chorus, but not good when you are moving within a section ( ie such as drawing a verb up or down during an outro section. Such moves must be accomplished in real time with fader ride, ( or get a machine with Automix -- 2400 or 4416)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:36 pm 
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Dude

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:27 pm
Posts: 19
Favourite food: Italian
Machine type: AW1600
Thank You for all good insight and experiences. It's all very helpful to hear how you handled many of these issues, and that there are some limitations and strict rules in the programming that have to be considered.

You are correct on the GRID [not absolute time]. The grid pulls everything to beat 1, as you say. When using slice [works fine to alter tempo of samples within reason], if tempo is changed in the tempo map "after original writing", the GRID pulls the slices to the closest 1 beat and totally ruins the intent. It creates gaps and overlaps, which thankfully go back to their correct positions if you change tempo back to "writing tempo"[the math works consistently]. Lessons learned. I'm now able to use slice and grid to create full drum compositions using samples of differing tempos, after testing scenarios and order of operations[probably cleaner and safer to avoid slice, but I like to push limits]. Luckily, I have other tools, but wanted to be able to take this Pad Sampler to it's fullest capability. It has limitations, but also a pretty slick and solid addition to the toolkit.[Sample Library on the agenda]

On to the next hurdles of workflow and acceptable practices within the programmers rules. This is a different animal from my dedicated analog multitrack and mixing console days. I know what I want out of it, but must learn to comply with the AI built into these software driven tools.

[Tools: AW1600, D3200, X6, XR16, DR5, X2222FX, Hydrogen, and ….]


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