The DijonStock Digital Home Recording Support Forum

*** USER REGISTRATION DISABLED! FOR ACCESS TO THE BOARD, MAIL TO registration AT dijonstock DOT com. THANK YOU ***
It is currently Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:24 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:40 pm 
Offline
Lone Star

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:10 pm
Posts: 9
Favourite food: Cheese
Machine type: AW1600
Just out of interest, I wondered if anybody had compared the AW16G to the AW1600 and found much (or any) difference, in build quality? I noticed somewhat interestingly the AW1600 was made in Japan whereas the AW16G was made in Taiwan, not that this itself should matter yet I'm still curious whether the body of the AW16G is made out of the same super strong metal as the AW1600? AW1600 in terms of it's body must be the most solid compact studio ever, i am really shocked at how good it is, even if the rotary knobs and faders themselves don't feel all that great (a bit cheap and scrapey like any budget portable mixer). The faders are also not that long. I am pretty sure the faders on my old Roland VS880 digital 8-track were considerably longer.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:39 am 
Offline
Spaminator Extraordinaire
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:58 pm
Posts: 8205
Favourite food: sushi
Machine type: AW2400
They pretty much are the same. The 1600 has a few more features. But at this stage of the game find yourself an AW2400. It’s the place to be.

_________________
GSMUSIC: Hey RZ, Im not no upper class american, the gear I own is what I have special to me. My car sucks, my house sucks, my nieghborhood sucks. Does yours RZ? Does it?

rz-land


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:14 am 
Offline
Lone Star

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:10 pm
Posts: 9
Favourite food: Cheese
Machine type: AW1600
Thanks RZ. It’s just hard to tell from pics. For all I know AW16G could have been hard silver plastic in it’s body (hard silver plastic was all the rage in early 2000’s). It’s difficult to be sure of what a company will do even if I do believe Yamaha are still today pretty great as far as massive corporations go (decent build quality held as being important).
I’ll be on the lookout for any great deals on AW2400. A very beautiful looking machine and has those much larger faders. Is the fan noise much bother? (sorry, probably has been discussed on other threads). I own an Alesis HD24 and the big (think 90’s PC..) fan noise renders it practically useless for work in the same room as you record. Have been meaning to modify it with a quieter fan or even considered taking the fan out (dangerous as that may be) since I only record 1 or 2 tracks max at a time, but I prefer a more simple recording setup like pc/interface or all in one studio offers so I doubt I’ll ever go back to it.

p.s. should add that the HD noise on my current AW1600 (which I have recently acquired and has a faulty screen I need to get fixed) while probably still detectable by certain mics, is far far more minimal compared to HD24's fan.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:09 am 
Offline
Spaminator Extraordinaire
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:58 pm
Posts: 8205
Favourite food: sushi
Machine type: AW2400
I can’t tell you the fan makes too much noise. Yes the faders are great and automated. Plus there are 4 effects. If you can find one it will be worth it. They are on eBay from time to time.

_________________
GSMUSIC: Hey RZ, Im not no upper class american, the gear I own is what I have special to me. My car sucks, my house sucks, my nieghborhood sucks. Does yours RZ? Does it?

rz-land


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:56 pm 
Offline
Lone Star

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:10 pm
Posts: 9
Favourite food: Cheese
Machine type: AW1600
Yeh, I would suspect the fan would physically be a good bit smaller than on my Alesis to start with. And faders not only far bigger than AW1600 but automated too! I forgot that. What a machine. Thanks. I will keep my eyes peeled for any good deals. It's a little sad that the compact studio market has dried up and we don't anymore have such tank-like machines like this from the peak of the compact studio golden age. Not to knock the couple of current offerings by Zoom and Tascam. I've heard good things about both and they are priced nice.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:42 pm 
Offline
Greenhorn
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:21 am
Posts: 158
Location: central maine, usa
Favourite food: pizza
Machine type: AW4416
hey dave,

please don't overlook the aw4416 ... they are out there and offer a nice pallette of features that may appeal to your needs ... i was able to score 2 of them on various websites (affordable) and i have not been disappointed ... solid recording platform, metal and plastic case, moderate fan noise but easily removed via on/off switch mod, slight learning curve but once you get it - you got it !

2 rear slots for optional input/efx cards, 2 built in efx channels, 8 auxes (2 assigned as efx), 24 inputs, 16 recordable tracks, flying faders, cd writer, AUTOMIX !! ... best bang for the $$ ... imho

good luck with your quest,

mark


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:44 pm 
Offline
Lone Star

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:10 pm
Posts: 9
Favourite food: Cheese
Machine type: AW1600
Thanks for chiming in Mark with your well wishes, pointing out those impressive features of the older 4416 and the possibility of fan modding. If i found one in excellent condition at a reasonable price, I would definitely give it a go. I have a supposed new old stock AW1600 I am trying to fix at the moment (screen issue) and if i can do that i'm sure using it would give me a little more insight into what the largely superior 4416 would be like.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:41 pm 
Offline
Marker Magician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3490
Machine type: AW2400
I have a 1600 and a 2400, but i have thought seriously about a 4416, in the past.

There are some less desirable factors, such as only one stereo track (no virtuals), and a smaller hard drive, but the features are very attractive. such as two slots for cards (extra ins, and/ or a y56k card, should you find one), I do believe the faders can be assigned to the Aux send buses. Not so on the 2400 (virtual dials on a screen). And other factors I am sure Mark can fill in too. doubt I will ever acquire one as my two machines see less action these days (fits and starts). but if a 4416 came my way I'd go for it, I think.

_________________
Byron


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:18 pm 
Offline
Greenhorn
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:21 am
Posts: 158
Location: central maine, usa
Favourite food: pizza
Machine type: AW4416
hello,

the two aw4416s that i acquired were purchased used on cl ... one for $300 the other $350

1st one came with a nice roadcase, 12 gig harddrive, a spare 20 gig harddrive and 8 channel 1/4" analog input card ... (analog input card costs about $250+ )

2nd one was the real score ... the unit came with 3 harddrives on 2 separate slide in trays, 2 optical cables, mouse, bound reference manuals, technical repair manual AND y56k card ($350 for the card alone !) ... the guy was changing to Pro Tools and wanted out of the traditional yamaha system ... i had to travel a couple hundred miles to mass. to get it but the deal was right and the travel day was nice ... it probly cost me an extra $50 in travel and expenses but , oh so worth it ...

the aw4416s are out there still ... i find them extremely easy to work with and a solid foundation for any in home studio ...

although the stereo track records only one at a time, there is a work around for the single stereo track issue by using the scene screen and automix feature (copy tracks to a different location) ...

the 8 auxes are fader assigned which is a great feature if using them for monitor mixes ...

the only issue that i have had to deal with is the xlr inputs on the machine are marginal at best ... i use 8 channel presonus preamps for all addition mic ins via the analog inputs or the digital/firewire card ... i can arm 16 tracks to be recording at the same time with no issues

i find the aw4416 one of the great yamaha consoles that a lot of people are unaware of ... much like the other console in the main studio TASCAM SX1LE .... i just like the older analog/digital consoles with a hands on approach ... no laptops for me (at this time...)

unless there is an all in one recording station released that is comparable, i'll stick with these until they stop working or i cannot make the repairs ... the one issue that may arise is the life expectancy of the harddrives ... i haven't pulled the trigger on installing a flashdrive upgrade but i do have the part #s and necessary info to do so ... sooner or later i'll have to do it

mark


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:24 pm 
Offline
Marker Magician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3490
Machine type: AW2400
Good overview. I forgot about the mouse capability.

Sounds like a real score with your second unit! The y56k card is worth it's weight in gold, IMHO. With it you can gently ( or not so gently, if not careful) polish your mixes in a way (limiters) that really extends the capability of the machine to make great sounding mixes. The verb is very versatile, though with a seemingly longer learning curve. The de-esser can be used very subtly, to great effect. and the compressors are good too. The Y cards don't seem to come up for sale too often, although i don't look every day or have it on a watch list.

I too have an 8 in, 1/4 inch card, but i don't use it much ( could be for sale if anyone asks ) I prefer to get 8 extra ins via optical ADAT in from an m audio 8 preamp unit. Both methods work well.

I envy the capability for Aux assignment to faders. The lack of this feature is a drawback with the 2400 for using the machine as a mixer for live shows and remote recordings. Time needed for access and adjustment is perhaps the main reason, but running a close second is the need to use the screen to see what you are doing and where each channel on the aux bus sits. Further to that, when recording outside ( many summer events!!) It becomes near impossible to read the screen in bright daylight.. I would love to be able to look at the physical position of faders, rather than a screen of virtual dials, adjustable only "slowly" one at a time. Also with 8 aux buses on the 4416 - 4 on the 2400 - you will never run out of options. I do believe the 4416 has more capability for patching option, not available on the 2400.

I think I am talking myself into looking again !!!

_________________
Byron


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:51 pm 
Offline
Marker Magician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3490
Machine type: AW2400
seems to be several listings for 4416 and also expansion cards ( one y56k) on ebay right now. A bit pricier than mark's find, but perhaps of interest to some.

_________________
Byron


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:35 pm 
Offline
Greenhorn
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:21 am
Posts: 158
Location: central maine, usa
Favourite food: pizza
Machine type: AW4416
hello there,

sorry to hijack the thread but i just want to clarify my single stereo track work around ...

by using the automix feature, you can just assign another scene and make adjustments to your "new automix" ... i use the automix feature as my stereo mix file folder ... this is my workflow to accomplish this feat

example: there is a mostly complete set of 12 tracks recorded and you are ready to mix down to stereo mix ... by using the automix feature, you set the parameters and levels on the fly and save them (multiple passes with the automix allow tweeking and saving per pass) ... if the mix is acceptable at that time (let's call it scene 5 mix), record it to the stereo track for export ... but then you listen to it in the car and want to make changes ... so just add a new scene (scene 6 mix) which copies all previous tracks and parameters to the new scene ... now you can do a new automix with additions and subtractions as needed to the 12 tracks ... you then can eliminate the old scene 5 stereo mix and record the upgraded scene 6 mix ... record scene 6 mix to the stereo track for export ... all parameters and mix of the scene 5 mix are retained at the scene 5 recall point

things can get a bit confusing but by working within the automix feature, you can see the workflow via the past scenes as long as you label them ...

hope that helps to clear up the issue with a single stereo mix of the wonderful aw4416 ... after working with the console for years, it has been my work around the single stereo track issue ....

if you have any questions, let me know

rock on

mark


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:45 pm 
Offline
Spaminator Extraordinaire
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:58 pm
Posts: 8205
Favourite food: sushi
Machine type: AW2400
hudrodguy wrote:
hello there,

sorry to hijack the thread but i just want to clarify my single stereo track work around ...

by using the automix feature, you can just assign another scene and make adjustments to your "new automix" ... i use the automix feature as my stereo mix file folder ... this is my workflow to accomplish this feat

example: there is a mostly complete set of 12 tracks recorded and you are ready to mix down to stereo mix ... by using the automix feature, you set the parameters and levels on the fly and save them (multiple passes with the automix allow tweeking and saving per pass) ... if the mix is acceptable at that time (let's call it scene 5 mix), record it to the stereo track for export ... but then you listen to it in the car and want to make changes ... so just add a new scene (scene 6 mix) which copies all previous tracks and parameters to the new scene ... now you can do a new automix with additions and subtractions as needed to the 12 tracks ... you then can eliminate the old scene 5 stereo mix and record the upgraded scene 6 mix ... record scene 6 mix to the stereo track for export ... all parameters and mix of the scene 5 mix are retained at the scene 5 recall point

things can get a bit confusing but by working within the automix feature, you can see the workflow via the past scenes as long as you label them ...

hope that helps to clear up the issue with a single stereo mix of the wonderful aw4416 ... after working with the console for years, it has been my work around the single stereo track issue ....

if you have any questions, let me know

rock on

mark


2400 has automix and it's an excellent feature to a nearly perfect machine.

_________________
GSMUSIC: Hey RZ, Im not no upper class american, the gear I own is what I have special to me. My car sucks, my house sucks, my nieghborhood sucks. Does yours RZ? Does it?

rz-land


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:47 pm 
Offline
Marker Magician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3490
Machine type: AW2400
Not a 4416 owner, so asking this for info purpose -- how many EFF send/return buses? the 1600 and G have 2. the 2400 has 4.

On the 4416 are the EFFs patched through the AUX, or do they exist "independently" of the AUX sends, as on the 1600 and 2400?

Your Automix workaround sounds efficient.

_________________
Byron


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:07 am 
Offline
Greenhorn
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:21 am
Posts: 158
Location: central maine, usa
Favourite food: pizza
Machine type: AW4416
Byron wrote:
Not a 4416 owner, so asking this for info purpose -- how many EFF send/return buses? the 1600 and G have 2. the 2400 has 4.

On the 4416 are the EFFs patched through the AUX, or do they exist "independently" of the AUX sends, as on the 1600 and 2400?

Your Automix workaround sounds efficient.


for your consideration,

on the aw4416, the aux 7 and aux 8 channels are factory linked to the 2 separate internal efx (but easily unlinked to assign 7-8 as monitor sends, efx send etc.)... the internal efx return to 2 channels on fader layer 17-24 RTN ... with the y56 card installed, you can send and return any channel(s) through the cards efx and back to ? (flexible busses) ... there is also an ADAT input ... of course you can assign the omni outs as sends/returns for outboard gear, as well as, the 2 insert points on the console channel pres can send/return efx ...

i have have come to just use the 7-8 auxes with the 2 built in factory effects for some tracks (reverb, eq) and use y56 for special efx ... simple, clean and easy

all eight auxes are linked to the fader banks and work accordingly ... flying faders recall mixes quickly

yes, yamaha really should have setup stereo virtual tracks for final mixes, but maybe they thought the automix was the answer ... i really find the automix feature (with the flying faders and channel dropout animation) helpful and easy to navigate once you have a grasp ...

mark ... :headbang:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:59 am 
Offline
Marker Magician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3490
Machine type: AW2400
Thanks for the description. I have a y96k card in my 2400. I don't think it would work in a 4416, but not sure on this. I would really miss that card if I did not have it. I think I am quoting Geno (Skygod _RIP) when I say, " the limiters are killer". All the effects are great. I never have got the hang of the Super Tap delay really. I don't think that the AW display shows it effectively. Lots of parameters too ???

Also on the 2400, navigation on the card is cumbersome, in that the the cursor buttons do not repeat when held down while navigating the Card's display. so movement has to be push, push, push ... of the up/down and side to side cursor keys. An inconvenience far outweighed by the power of the card for doing good.

I wish the 2400 had mouse capability as does the 4416.

_________________
Byron


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group