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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:21 pm 
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For the next 7 days you can download a song that I was called in to record at a moments notice.

http://s63.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1UX3 ... QFH0YAPJ4Q

There are 6 tracks

Track 1 - Drum/Bass
Track 2 - Acoustic, Electric, Piano, Hammond Organ
Track 4 - Background vocals
Track 5 - Background vocals
Track 6 - Harmonica, Lead vocals
Track 7 - Background vocals
Track 8 - Background vocals

I think this was the third time I recorded with my G.. so be gentle - I had to patch into a mixer really quickly and didn't have a sound check.

I would like to hear what you can do with it.

Cin

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 Post subject: Cool.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:28 pm 
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I'm downloading now, then I've got to decide if I'm worthy. :notworthy:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:29 pm 
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I'm downloading the file now, Cin...but until I get my studio done, there's not much I can do until then.

But, just looking at the track list, and I know you said you had to do things in a hurry, it would have so much better to have separated those elements. With so much loaded up on the second track, there's no way to spread them out in the stereo field at the very least, let alone do anything with them. And drum and bass...you say drum singular? If it's a full set in mono...bummer. Four tracks of background vocals?? Two of those should have been told to hit the road 'till later.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:29 pm 
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If nothing else, it will be fun.

Bear in mind, I had no sound check, so the levels on especially track 8 are NUTS.

Cin

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:33 pm 
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DCinFrance wrote:
I'm downloading the file now, Cin...but until I get my studio done, there's not much I can do until then.

But, just looking at the track list, and I know you said you had to do things in a hurry, it would have so much better to have separated those elements. With so much loaded up on the second track, there's no way to spread them out in the stereo field at the very least, let alone do anything with them. And drum and bass...you say drum singular? If it's a full set in mono...bummer. Four tracks of background vocals?? Two of those should have been told to hit the road 'till later.


The recording was for a church service. The audio, (my final mix) was used for a television broadcast.

The full drumset was mic'd, but I chose to concentrate on the kick, snare and overhead mic.

The singers are all over the place. Some are REALLY off key, others fade in and out, it's usually best to record the vocals is to record them ALL then pick what can be used.

Cin

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:36 pm 
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Did I also mention that we mix blind?

We're in a room with no view of the stage, with a 48 channel mixer, 8 sub-groups and a program flow....

Oh yeah... and no sound check.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:43 pm 
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Tough conditions for sure...you got me interested, though.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:43 pm 
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...and that's the trouble with churches...they let about damn near anybody through the door. :wink:

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 Post subject: Nope...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:49 pm 
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I definitely do not have the skills to deal with this one.

As DC mentioned, it mostly problems with instruments piled up on a single track. The drum/bass track for example. The data is there, if the instruments were separated you could deal with them and probably get something going. In their current state if I boost the low end to get some punch into the kick drum, the bass will be rattling glass in my neighbor's house. :wink:

Certainly with only eight tracks you gotta do something, but instruments of differring frequency range can sometimes better share a track. For instance, put acoustic guitar and bass on a shared track, when you record you can roll-off the input of the guitar below a certain frequency range. You can also roll-off the top end of the bass at it's input.

Now you can use your low end eq to give you a little control over the bass and the high-end to help with the acoustic and try to arrive at a happy medium for mids.

Of course all of this kind of cheating assumes a little pre-planning that you didn't have the luxury of anyway. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Nope...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:05 pm 
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'61 wrote:
I definitely do not have the skills to deal with this one.

As DC mentioned, it mostly problems with instruments piled up on a single track. The drum/bass track for example. The data is there, if the instruments were separated you could deal with them and probably get something going. In their current state if I boost the low end to get some punch into the kick drum, the bass will be rattling glass in my neighbor's house. :wink:

Certainly with only eight tracks you gotta do something, but instruments of differring frequency range can sometimes better share a track. For instance, put acoustic guitar and bass on a shared track, when you record you can roll-off the input of the guitar below a certain frequency range. You can also roll-off the top end of the bass at it's input.

Now you can use your low end eq to give you a little control over the bass and the high-end to help with the acoustic and try to arrive at a happy medium for mids.

Of course all of this kind of cheating assumes a little pre-planning that you didn't have the luxury of anyway. :(


That's interesting. I never thought of putting the bass/guitar on the same track for additional control using the EQ.

I agree that there's not a lot that can be done.

I'll post my final track at some point as well.

Cin

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:24 pm 
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Grrrr... appearently this is not worthy at all. Don't bother downloading.

I suck..

Cin

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:35 pm 
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Aw, don't take it so hard, cowboy. Chalk it up to learning. Without even being able to do a sound check, you were rollin' the dice anyway. There's no way you are gonna hit all eight without it, let alone one. Any experienced engineer would have said "even Jesus couldn't pull this one off, Pastor, so I'm outta here".

'61 offers great advice to do things on the fly though. Put things who's freqs would overlap and cut some of the overlap on the way in. Drums though are pain enough to have in one track (and you really want it to be stereo) with cymbals and kick covering the high and low ends at the same time.

If the instruments were all grouped together on stage, I would have simply set up overheads and recorded them all together in a stereo channel if you had to burn so many tracks on the vocals. Or just taken a stereo out from a mixer if you could subgroup the instruments into a stereo pair.

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 Post subject: Wrong!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:28 pm 
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Quote:
Grrrr... appearently this is not worthy at all. Don't bother downloading.

I suck..

Cin


Holy negativity Batman!

Not in the least Cinda, I've yet to make a decent live recording from an "onstage" situation, there are few harder things to do.

It's easy for us to sit here and armchair quarterback after the fact. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:04 am 
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Quote:
It's easy for us to sit here and armchair quarterback after the fact.


Ain't that the truth. I've tried, failed; tried again, failed even more miserably (DijonStock incidently); tried again in a situation where I had 5 groups including my own and marginally succeeded at 4 and no, mine was not amongst them.

Cinda, the reason I called you cowboy is that I admire you...you shoot from the hip and you're not afraid to state your mind, take chances, and bounce back when you're wrong. Don't be goin' soft on me now.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:41 am 
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Thanks for the encouragement.

It's a little frustrating. Although we've been given studio space, decent monitors, etc, we still have limitations.

On the house side, there are 56 channels being used.

We only have a 48 channel board, so it's a constant battle to decide what to/not to record.

Further, we have been asking for the ability to record 16 channels at a time and we've been stuck with 8 for a few years.

In the past, we would record all music in stereo, however, we don't get accurate bass reading in our studio space. That drove placing the bass and drums on the same channel and trying to set the levels via meter.

That, coupled with the fact that they do a musicians run-through doesn't give the ample opportunity to set EQ, get decent levels, etc.

BUT, we go in and record in these circumstances on a weekly basis.

I personally think it would be great if they would take the front of house mix, but that sound engineer does some weird things.........

I'll try to post some more soon. I always have a host of musicians over for jam sessions.

Cin

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:49 am 
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this is why brain space is SO expensice *these* days.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:16 pm 
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is there any free-ware you guys are using to listen to stuff like this?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:41 pm 
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mcnewsxp wrote:
is there any free-ware you guys are using to listen to stuff like this?


For just listening to WAV files I use Winamp which is limited to listening to one track at a time of course. I don't know of any freeware multitrack WAV applications, but there is a pretty good cheap one called N-Track Studio (50 bucks for the 16-bit version - 75 for the 24 bit). I think there's a demo/shareware version so you can give it a try if you like.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:57 pm 
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This doesn't work on the G, but I have played around with it in Cubase SE.

Have any of you guys tried Drumagog? There is a free two week demo available. It is used to replace snare and kick hits mostly, I think. We record rehearsals live with 3 mics on the drums: kick, snare, and O/H condensor. Needless to say, all three mics pick up the full drumset, vocals, bass, and guitar.

Drumagog was able to relace the snare and kick, and completely eliminate the background noise on those tracks!

There is a 'ducking' feature that is supposed to get rid of the kick and snare on other tracks, but I haven't been able to get it to work. If I do get it working I would have 3 relatively clean drum tracks compared to the originals. This would make mixing, overdubs, corrections, etc., a lot easier.

Thought this was relevant as you could copy CindaP's mixed instrument tracks and perhaps get some clean tracks of snare and kick allowing you a bit more flexibility in EQ. Especially if you could 'duck' the snare and kick out of the original mixed instrument track.

Food for thought.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 8:20 pm 
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WOW! I downloaded the tracks and I must say. It's gonna take a miracle. The levels are all over the olace. Some tracks are just hiss, and the end is loud as I don't know what. Im not trying to bring ya down though. On the up side Im into hip hop so I've managed to salvage a loop from 5 tracks, and took 8n bars of the lead singer, and I came up with one hell of an instramental track. Im sure you'd be proud of. By the way is that an original track or a cover of another song? I did this with sleepless before with good results. I'm sure you'd like it. Think Nelly and Tim Mcgraw on this one.


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