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 Post subject: Old fashioned recording
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:29 pm 
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So I've finally got my dad to work up a few songs with me and record them...the other day we learned 3 songs, and I wanted to capture them quickly so I would have the basic structure to work on arrangement...I setup two mics in the room and let it fly...after fiddling with mic placement to capture vocals at the correct volume we laid them down without much thought really...when I went back and listened last night, I was amazed at how good it sounded...def. had an old school vibe to it...I'm actually now thinking of recording the songs this way (we are working on old time mountain music)...only problem is I have to play mando and guitar and that's impossible to do live...just curious if anyone here has experimented with this type of thing and if I overdub the mando parts will it destroy the vibe...I"m gonna overdub some mando parts on what we have done...I'll let ya know what I think...any suggestions or help are/is welcome... :)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:07 pm 
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I've done lots of recordings in this style. Your overdubs should work, as long as you don't get too crazy trying to make them sit right. If this happens - go back to square two and try again to engineer the track you recorded to overdub, sit well - often using a bit of compression and makeup gain is all that is needed. If the overdubs are done in the same space as the bed tracks this could help too, as you might not need any reverb - but let your ears be the judge - sometimes a closely mic'ed dub works with some ambience you create. I find it useful to have a vocal mic placed too during the recording of the bed tracks, so you can bring up the vocal(s) a bit to give/control the recording's "close" feeling.

I like to use a Mid-Side mic array sometimes too for this kind of work, to capture the room. This could be further explained if need be.

Good luck. Wish I had some recordings of my dad. All his tracks are virtuals in my head - I can hear them, but the grandkids can't. He has been gone for 18 years now - but those tunes still play away in my inner ear.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:22 pm 
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If you overdub another instrument with the same room and mic setup, I don't think you'll hear much of a difference. The main problem with overdubbing is that you can lose the "feel" of people playing all together. Sometimes the groove just isn't there.

I'm into that kind of music. Post it when you get it done. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:08 am 
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just to give an update....

I close mic'ed the mando and threw some parts down...it was ugly...seemed to stick out like a sore thumb...I haven't tried to compress, etc. as suggested so maybe I can fool with that some...also maybe using the extra vocal mic as suggested will make it not sound so "isolated"...tomorrow I'm gonna get the same basic setup as the bed tracks in the same room and try it that way to see how it goes...thanks for your suggestions guys!

Byron, could you please go into a little more detail on the Mid-Side mic thing?

I consider myself lucky to still have my dad around...recording is a way to get to spend some extra time with him...a lot of people never got that chance, so I don't wanna throw it away...hell, he's excited about it too...he called me today and asked about getting a picture taken for the cover of the cd...I didn't even know we were makin a cd, lol!

I'll keep updatin' as needed...thanks again fellas!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:09 pm 
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JakeH wrote:
just to give an update....

I close mic'ed the mando and threw some parts down...it was ugly...seemed to stick out like a sore thumb...I haven't tried to compress, etc. as suggested so maybe I can fool with that some...also maybe using the extra vocal mic as suggested will make it not sound so "isolated"...tomorrow I'm gonna get the same basic setup as the bed tracks in the same room and try it that way to see how it goes...thanks for your suggestions guys!

Byron, could you please go into a little more detail on the Mid-Side mic thing?

I consider myself lucky to still have my dad around...recording is a way to get to spend some extra time with him...a lot of people never got that chance, so I don't wanna throw it away...hell, he's excited about it too...he called me today and asked about getting a picture taken for the cover of the cd...I didn't even know we were makin a cd, lol!

I'll keep updatin' as needed...thanks again fellas!


Here is a link I mined from a post Geno sent some time ago when I was asking the same questions you have.

http://psbg.emusician.com/ar/emusic_dou ... /index.htm

Keep working on it - well worth the effort. If the mando is sticking out too much, a bit of reverb may take it back in the mix a bit. I also like to use the Early Reflections preset. Use this sparingly on the bed tracks and they may come forward a bit - and so match up with the mando you tracked. Or have two mics on the mando - one close and one further back to catch the room. these signals can then be mixed, but have an ear for phase cancellation that occurs.

Glad to hear your Pa is excited enough to visualize a finished product - have fun.

Here is a link to a recording I did with a Mid side array in a hall and a lot of spot mics on stage. It is the mid side that gives the realistic quality, and the spots that make it sound close.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11205

I had a much longer post composed for you, but lost it somehow - thinking I could navigate back to it - (sound of head banging on wall here) - no time to recompose right now, but will opine on any questions you may have later if you wish.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:17 pm 
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When you are overdubbing the mando with just one mic, you won't be getting any "leakage" into the 2nd mic of the original setup. This might have some small effect on how the mando now fits in the mix. Also might be mic positioning re the mando.

Should be a way to get it to sound good. At least to be similar to if you'd started with 3 players and 3 mics. It's still in the same room, which effects the results.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:03 pm 
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So...This morning I tried the same setup that I recorded the bed tracks with...much much better...it's not perfect, but it's at least in the bleacher seats...Thanks so much Hog and Byron...you guys make trial and error much more efficient!!!

I'm gonna have to experiment with stepping up to one of the mics to solo and standing back to chop... I hope this helps create the "live illusion"...should be fun...I'll keep y'all posted... :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:14 pm 
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Got any possum recipes? I saw one in my backyard recently. :) :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:37 pm 
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Someone said recipe?


Does it involve cheese?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:03 am 
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oh yeah...possum a'la king...that's the way to do it...and don't forget the tail...folks just throw it away, but there is a heck of a lot of meat there...and most great possum recipes include cheesse... :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:18 am 
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GeorgeTownStock? :D

Kentucky Fried Possum?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:13 pm 
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Heck yeah! it's on...squirrel, possum, groundhog and some of my famous untaxed liquor...this will be great! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:35 pm 
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Untaxed... that's my favourite!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:01 pm 
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Not sure if this was mentioned Jake (sorry if it was) but maybe try recording the Mando in room w/ mic
and have the original tracks playing at a decent volume through speakers and let them leak at appropriate level into the room mic.
So it's like the band is back in town again by way of reamping into the room of original backing tracks.

I would imagine that alone would capture the real time feel of your playing with the rest a little bit if the resulting track was copied once or twice and seasoned to taste with rest of mix..have some free space 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:24 am 
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Hey Joel,

good to hear from ya... seems like its been few and far between...salud!

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