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 Post subject: EQ Library Settings
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:01 pm 
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I having a bit of trouble "taming" my Seagull...It's an older S6 Cedar Top, REALLY full bottom, almost overbearing live, but in a mix it tries to drown the mids....This guitar looks the rat's ass, but boy she sound-a beeyootifull and warm, right up to the input jack, then I lose control...

...I've tried going through the eq library on my 1600, but my ears "glaze over" fairly quickly and I don't trust my senses after a few different settings...And I don't seem to have the patience to tweak in the parametric, it gets to the point where everything sounds good, and that ain't good...

Question is, do any of you have favorite eq settings for a phat-bottomed girl like my S6?

Also, should eq be addressed through phones or monitors?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:38 pm 
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i have a seagull cedar top 12 string.
i record with an akg c3000 and used the built in acoustic guitar eq setting as is.
i like it fine.

you should mix with phones and monitor, then check it out in as many real world settings as you have available.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:51 pm 
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I also have a Seagull cedar top...or had until I borrowed it to Pat's nephew and never saw it again...and recorded once with it, and hated it with any and all of the EQ libraries. You guessed it, boomed right through the bottom to low mids. No choice but to EQ manually, and yeah it took a couple of passes before I found something I didn't hate.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:01 am 
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You guys sure are encouraging :? ...Actually I love the tone I get from my S6 (It's about twenty years old or more, VERY well seasoned), but the resonance through the top is restrictive when recording...I've been using a Sennheiser 421, a Behringer B1 (if anything would pull the lows, that should), and an Ibeam Active, none of which give me an acceptable tone flat...When I pull the lows (varying from 80 Hz to 220 Hz), I get a clean but empty tone...I need to find the sweet spot...

It's nice to know I'm not the only Seagull player around...I love the action and the wide neck (I'm a bass player with very fat fingertips)...Just want that sound!!

I guess I need to invest in a matched pair of SD condensers....

Thanks for the input guys


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:47 am 
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stettoman wrote:
I guess I need to invest in a matched pair of SD condensers....

Stetto, I highly recommend that you consider obtaining a pair of Studio Projects C4s. They are a indeed a step up from the Marshall MXL603s and more affordable than a pair of Shure SM81s. The C4s are supplied with interchangeable capsules.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:07 am 
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Hey 60's, how do those C4s compare to the Octava (MC012?). The Seagull was made for a mic with a rolloff around 400 Hz...My next mic purchase will definitely be a pair of SD's, but jeez there are a lot of choices out there...I've heard that (gulp) Behringer just released a SD condenser selling for around $50 a pair...I've also heard that SP makes some mighty nice mics, I wish I'd bought the SP B1 before I ordered the Berhinger...Though I find the Berhinger to have it's place.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:31 am 
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stettoman wrote:
Hey 60's, how do those C4s compare to the Octava (MC012?).

I don't own a pair of Octava, so I can't offer up a comparison. I did have a pair of Marshall MXL603s that I gave to Kester for drum overheads after I purchased the C4s.

stettoman wrote:
The Seagull was made for a mic with a rolloff around 400 Hz...

How do you you come to know that? Standard guitar open string tuning frequencies are:
Low E - 82.41
A - 110.00
D - 146.83
G - 196.00
B - 246.94
High E - 329.63

I'm confused. This makes no sense at all.

Ah ha! The Seagull must be capoed when micing? :wink:

I often drop tune my Yarii DY55 a whole step. If I play it open there's a lot of bottom end which can conflict with bass guitar considering that the low E on a bass guitar is around 43 Hz.

More often than not I capo my acoustics at the 5th or 6th fret which leaves a lot of low end room. Sorry....just thinking out loud.

stettoman wrote:
I've heard that (gulp) Behringer just released a SD condenser selling for around $50 a pair...

:lol: Sounds like a deal. :roll: Sorry. :oops:

stettoman wrote:
I've also heard that SP makes some mighty nice mics

They do, but it goes without saying that not all of what they manufacture will be best suited for everyone.

Good luck with your search for a suitable mic!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:46 am 
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stettoman wrote:
Hey 60's, how do those C4s compare to the Octava (MC012?). The Seagull was made for a mic with a rolloff around 400 Hz...My next mic purchase will definitely be a pair of SD's, but jeez there are a lot of choices out there....


Hey guys, I was just talking about this over on another post. I have a pair of Oktava 012s and a pair of SP C4s. Both work very nicely. If you are having a problem with a boomy guitar, you will probably like the C4s better. That having been said, I am finding that mic placement has as much to do with the sound as the type of mic you use.

If you point one mic at the 12th fret (doesn't pick up much low end there) and one at the bridege (picks up lots there) and record into separate channels you can mix to taste.

Other issues regarding comparison between the two mics is that the SP needs to have a dedicated preamp--the Oktavas don't. We use the inserts on an Alesis mixer for preamps and they work just fine for all of the mics we use (SP C1 for vocals, 4033 for vocals, & the Oktavas) the SPC4s sound like crap through this.

We use a BlueTube preamp for the C4s and they sound nice through that.

Also, if I had to choose just one pair of mics, Oktava 012s, or SP C4s, I'd probably go with the Oktavas because they sound better than the C4s on dobro, mandolin, and banjo. C4s sound better on guitar.
Doug


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:21 am 
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I have a Seagull S6.

Well, it's a Seagull....and it looks like an S6, but I bought it back when Seagull really only made one model of guitar. Living in Ottawa, which is on the border with Quebec, I'm not that far from the Seagull factory.

I purchased my Seagull at the only Seagull dealer in Ottawa at the time. A little Pawn shop downtown( Weiner's Pawn Shop ) that also sold new but inexpensive guitars from the likes of Seagull, Yamaki, Suzuki, etc.

I purchased a Suzuki Folk from there in 1972 that I still own, and I bought the Seagull in 1982 for $100 brand new. The guitar is up at my cottage right now, so I can't check for sure...but from memory I think it's serial number "132". So, it was surely one of the first off the Seagull production line that first year they started selling guitars under the Seagull name. Norman branded guitars, had been around for quite a few years at that point. When I was sold the Seagull, the sales pitch was....

made by the same guys who make Norman, but selling for less money.

I've used that old Seagull a lot playing live or just strumming around the house. Unfortunatly, while recording on the G I turned around and knocked my Seagull off the guitar stand last year. It popped the neck right off where it meets the body...but it was still kind of dangling at the fret-board. I glued it back on, but didn't really get the angle right. So, with the action 1/4" off the fretboard now...I'm thinking of taking up slide guitar...lol.

I hardly played that old Seagull warrior anyways over the last few years, using mainly my Taylor.

But, that old Seagull of mine has a lot of memories absorded into the wood.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:02 am 
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Yeah, my Seagull also fell over and the head, just above the nut, split and broke. The grain of the head was kinda weird...ran at 30° angle from the back to the front of the head stock (ideally I would think the grain should run parallel to the front and back surfaces). :? So I pumped it full of wood glue and put some clamps to it. Jean-Marc also busted his neck and had it repaired...another case of just falling over. The other problem I had was the soft cedar top...wore a dent a millimeter deep at the bridge with the pick.

Having said all that, it was the best sounding guitar in the store for 500 €. Nice playing too...probably why I never saw it again.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:38 am 
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Sorry to but in on this post, but i just wanted to point out that mic positioning has a lot to do with the sound of an acoustic guitar. If its too boomy, move the mike more towards the headstock. Too brittle, move it towards the bridge. Avoid pointing it directly into the soundhole too. I like to put it slightly angled on one side or the other of the soundhole, kinda like this ......


// or \\
___O__________<soundhole




If youve got a semi decent mic and a decent sounding guitar you should be able to get a damned fine sound with just a little eq.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:24 pm 
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It's many things...even "decent" mics are biased in ways helpful or hurtful. To say use this mic or that for all guitars is, well, superficial advice at best...I've gone through a half a dozen mics on a player/guitar type/model in trial and error trying to find the best combinations from a Neuman TLM103 to a cheap B5s. Positioning the mics does make a difference, though I think most know that a neck 12th fret and bridge mix offers the most options. Hell, I've even stuck a piece of plywood under the chair of the player and improved the sound.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:02 pm 
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Hmm, Utah, I may have the same era Seagull. My serial # is much higher, but the label, instead of saying "S-6" or "S6", it just says "Model 6"...I bought it on ebay last year for $200, the cedar top looks almost like Willie Nelson's old beat up flat top, except that some moron tried to hide the scratches by applying a fetid fruitwood stain, so close up it's blotchy...I may refinish the top one day, or not...

Mic placement has made quite a difference, but this Seagull has a lot of bottom. The 421, set to position 5 on the rolloff switch and placed near the 12 fret does sound better, but still begs for eq--I'd like to find a position/mic that necessitates the least amount of added eq...

One thing I haven't tried yet is to blend the Ibeam with a mic...But I'd really like to try a pair of C4's now that you guys have me drooling like this...

I'll keep at it, appreciate the help...

Oh, and 60's, my 400 Hz rolloff comment was meant as a sarcasm...Though when I do capo (never above the 2nd fret for me), the situation is easier to manage... :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:16 pm 
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Seagullstock???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:23 pm 
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my s12 mysteriously cracked on the back off the neck just above the nut. i think it happened when a friend of ours house-sat with her kids, her sisters kids and some friends of the kids. never pressed it...
the crack went all the way through the wood but didn't crack the top layer. i was going to toss it, but took around the corner to a local shop called "too many guitars" (as if ..). anyways - i just had to take my specs off to find the crack. plays and sounds just as sweet as ever. i used it on the one tune i posted here. (just finishing that up today- btw).
i tried a pair of behringer b5s placed in all the typical placements, but prefered the single akg c3000 (not 3000b) angle pointing down from the left arm side sort of aimed at the sound hole (bass rolled off/cardioid pattern). i wasn't playing so i was able to move the mic around while wearing headphones till sweetness arrived.
so maybe you could get a tea and sympathy person to help out.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:40 pm 
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Huh, a discontinued item perhaps, this elusive c3000 (NOT B)? My searches have all failed for any without the B designation...Is this an older version I'll only find on ebay?

Doan'a got time fo' no mo' seaches right now--gotta earn some Santa dough.... :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:48 pm 
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the c3000 b came out about a week after i bought my c3000 from mars music (also discontinued ...;^] ).
basically the same mics. i have both. the mid spike is a little different on each one. the c3000 brightens certain things up just right. i use it solo on my upright bass too. the b does a nice job too, but i have my druthers and want to get my nickles worth too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:14 pm 
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Quote:
Also, should eq be addressed through phones or monitors?


Through the monitors is your best bet.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:33 am 
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More Paul wrote:
Quote:
Also, should eq be addressed through phones or monitors?


Through the monitors is your best bet.


Heh heh, yeah, I know...Something just made me ask a dumb question...Another problem I have is that my setup makes it pretty difficult to monitor the monitors whilst playing a mic'd instrument...So what I do is record wearing phones, then playback through the monitors. Kinda time consuming transitions, but then I've always been good at finding the hard way of doing things... :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:58 am 
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OK guys, thanks to Bartman I now have a pair of C4s and a pair of JoeMeek JM27s on their way....Wish me luck....


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