The DijonStock Digital Home Recording Support Forum

I returned a guitar that I purchased from the "Cheap Commercially Popular Instrument" Center and found a SImmons SD5k drum kit. The SD5k has 5 rubberized pads (snare - 3 toms - kick pad). And 3 cymbals that are round, but not chokeable. All pads are single zone too.

I basically returned the Michael Kelly Hybrid that wasn't as "adjustable" as I like my instruments to be... and was developing a buzzing problem.

So, I returned it and was able to get into the SD5K for $200 out of pocket.

The kick, snare and toms sound good. The hi-hat is good and respsonsive, but the crash and ride lead a little to be desired.

I'm thinking about using real hi-hats, ride, crash and splash and x-y micing them with over heads.

Any opinions?

Cin

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"I'm not trying to play guitar, I'm trying to make music." - Michael Hedges.

Hi Cinda,

Well, generally it diametrically runs against the principle of having an electronic - therefore muteable - drumkit, but apart from that... I can't see anything that should give you a hard time.

I'd say technically that should work flawlessly... and you might even be able to nicely mute the thuds out you're gonna record from the pads themselves by using some EQ or gate.

Should work... !

Mic

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Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground

You'll pick up the slapping of the pads while the cymbals are resonating. Don't know if that would be buried noise to signal, but it will be in the cymbals track.

EDIT: should learn to spell or at least not type so fast.

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Honor is a debt you owe to those that see it in you.

Won't the ears (which are used to hearing drums) ignore the pad sounds and key in on the drum sounds?

I was looking at some of the original Simmons kits from the 80's. In those pictures, they would have the electronic set with a real snare and real symbols... It appears as though it worked live.

We'll see.

I want to record with the drums as is first, then maybe later add a real snare for variation and cymbals.

Cin

_________________
"I'm not trying to play guitar, I'm trying to make music." - Michael Hedges.

I don't think so, because normally you're used to not hearing any impact-noise from the skin itself, because that noise is burried below the actual skin-noise. Apart from that... the rubber-thud sounds distinctively different from a regular stick-hits-head-sound.

I think you'll be able to eliminate the thud though...

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Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground

I would tend to think so.

If you've already got the gear you might as well have a go at it.

The joys of having a home studio:

Free studio time
Ability to experiment

Cin

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"I'm not trying to play guitar, I'm trying to make music." - Michael Hedges.

It should work fine. Ive worked for a couple bands that use real cymbals and electronic drums.
Just use a high pass filter (like you normally would with overheads anyway) to kill the thuds.
Just think how much quieter those thuds are compared to an acoustic drum that would normally be in its place.

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shine on crazy diamonds
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus ... dID=520654

Yup..there's only one way to find out, Cyn. Let's us know what you think after doin' so.

_________________
Honor is a debt you owe to those that see it in you.

From what I've read in a recording magazine and at least one online forum, your proposed hybrid is the ideal setup. Apparently, the electronic brass just doesn't deliver the same "cut" (to use a guitar term) as the real stuff does. Of course, since I have no experience with this type of set up, I can speak with absolute authority.

Only problem I see is...good brass ain't cheap.

I'm pretty pleased with the "brass" I have now...

Zildjien hi-hat/ride
Paiste Splash
Wuhan China

They're all matched pretty well to.

Last time I was in town I mic'd the full set. If I get a chance before I get on the road again, I'll mix and post some of that for you to listen to.

The only problem that I had was that it was the first time we had to play in a LONG time - I didn't have overheads on the drums because I ran out of channels. (Snare, Kick, tom1, tom2, tom3, bass, guitar, guitar)

Being able to do XY or AB micing will allow me to go
drum left,
drum right,
overhead left,
overhead right,
bass,
guitar,
guitar,
vocals

Cin

_________________
"I'm not trying to play guitar, I'm trying to make music." - Michael Hedges.

CindaP, I do this all the time with great results! I record basic beats from a drum machine, or loops or electronic drums and on separate tracks record REAL brass hi-hat, crash & ride cymbals.

My advice? (and I know you want it):
1). Make sure whatever you record, that it sounds physically possible for a drummer to achieve; 2). Record the REAL cymbals with a condenser mic like in an overhead position between the two single cymbals (watch that the level does not overwhelm the mike); 3). Run the mic to a preamp (phantom power) then to a compressor to tame the transients that cymbals will cause (use drumset settings); and, 4). At mixdown, get the levels sounding like the entire (drum) set matches and was recorded in one pass.
Good luck!

You're obviously all set with brass so...ROCK ON SOUL SISTER!. As you can tell by my Av I am familliar with XY. I would strongly suggest near coincident micing as opposed to traditional coincident (XY) for greater stereo spread. The traditional 3' spaced pair (AB) is probably the best bet. I'm lazy so the one mic stand set up with XY is what you'll find around here.

I missed the opportunity to record...

There was a problem with the kick drum input. I have to take it back to the store today...

Then I'm on the road again until the first week in December.

Cin

_________________
"I'm not trying to play guitar, I'm trying to make music." - Michael Hedges.

Bummer, Baby.

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Honor is a debt you owe to those that see it in you.

Sometimes my hi-hat recording comes out so cruddy, I just use keyboard hats and add just a sniff of distortion. That is until I got some new beats from a friend who moved to Canada. Total slaying trash sizzly going on...efing great!

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We don't appreciate you eating macaroni and cheese on our limited time here

I actually ended up doing a hybrid...

I record direct from the brain of the SD5K, but I also mic the amplifier.

I found that the moving air from the keyboard amp and the highs that sparkle from the horn add additional depth for recording..

Cin

_________________
"I'm not trying to play guitar, I'm trying to make music." - Michael Hedges.

Cool, Cinda. Reamping the signal I had never thought of.

_________________
Honor is a debt you owe to those that see it in you.

Yeah... the drums by themselves were a little thin. By using the EQ on the keyboard amp it added heft to the kick drum and pop to the snare and sizzle to the high-hat.

Cin

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"I'm not trying to play guitar, I'm trying to make music." - Michael Hedges.

Cinda.....I'm a drummer with a hybrid setup. I have roland V-drums(the drum pads that actually have a mesh drum head) I use them with sabian cymbals and the result is AWesome!!! Nobody ever thinks the drums are electric.....they always think I'm a drum mic genious. Then I tell them the drums are fake....they never believe it!!!! I have actually faked people out using my fantom X6 keyboards' drum kits(from an expansion card of sampled REAL drums) to a point where a rep from CAPITOL RECORDS thought they were real! It's all about making a REALISTIC drum groove.....and yes, back to the subject........a hi-pass filter on the cymbal overheads does the trick. I'm in a two man band(he plays guitar and sings, and Iplay the hybrid kit to a click track to sync with the bass and keys/loops that I program) and always having the perfect drum sound no matter where we play is GOLD baby!!! We sound like 5 guys on stage, so people are alwys looking off stage to try to see who's playing the other parts they're hearing....like we hid the bass player and keyboard guy behind the bar!!!