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 Post subject: snare rattle
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:35 pm 
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looking for some tips to reduce snare rattle.
it's especially annoying when you have a place for a tom fill during a passage with no other instruments.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:45 pm 
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How do you mic the kit, mcnews?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:49 pm 
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been using two preamped condensors overhead, D112 on kick and an SM57 on snare.
condensor are placed about 3' over in a / \ pattern.
kick mic is stuffed inside the B-drum about 3 inches away from head just to the left of the beater.
snare mic is at about a 35 degree angle over top about 2" inside the rim and about 2" over the head.

?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:56 pm 
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my brother set up my kit.
he runs a studio.
guess he likes his rattle.

found this on molehillgroup:

Tuning Your Snare

Tuning a snare drum is different from tuning a tom or a bass drum in that you have one extra element to consider--the metal snares that stretch across the bottom of the drum. Not only do you have to deal with tuning the snares, but you also have to work a little extra magic with the bottom head--which, on a snare drum, is called the "snare head."

Most of the time you want to tune the snare head tighter than the batter head. This will produce a crisp sound and minimize unwanted buzz from the snares.

You can also adjust the drum's crispness by tune-tuning the tension knob on the snare strainer, which loosens or tightens the metal snares themselves. Loosen the tension knob too much, and the snares will start to rattle; tighten it too much, and the snares start to choke up. In between these two extremes is a wide tonal range, from "fat" to "crisp."

Here are some tips for achieving specific snare drum sounds:

* For a fat and "wet" sound, tune the snare head as low as possible, while leaving the batter head fairly tight.
* For a controlled and cutting crack, tune the snare head two or three tones higher than the batter head.
* For a highly resonant, almost ringy, sound, tune the snare and batter heads almost identical in pitch, or tune the snare head just slightly higher than the batter head.

After you get your snare drum perfectly tuned, chances are good that you'll run into a problem unique to snare drums--sympathetic vibrations. This is the buzz that is generated when your snares vibrate when a particular pitch is played on one of your other drums, or by another instrument. There are several things you can try to get rid of this buzz, including these:

* Readjust the tuning of your snares or your snare head. (The problem with this method is that it interferes with the overall tuning scheme of your kit.)
* Loosen slightly the four tension rods on either side of the snares on your snare head.
* Position a playing card or a tissue or shoelace between the snares and the snare head. (While this may get rid of the buzz, it will probably also muffle the snares to an undesirable degree.)

My experience is that you'll probably always have some degree of sympathetic snare buzz--but in a live situation, it will probably get lost in the overall mix. It's more of a problem in a studio situation, and that's where some of the extreme solutions (like sticking something between the snares and the snare head) might be necessary.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:58 pm 
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I'll ask my son to tell ya what he does...he gets a pretty good sound out of a middle of the road snare.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:00 pm 
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Ok... so that means not one-mic-per-tom...

Sorry, just wanted to get a better picture.

What I do is the following... take a Kleenex or maybe some toilet paper (2layers max) and place it between the snares and the bottom head, take two small strips of gaffer and tape it to the head...voilà (the kleenex should not be fully taped to the head and not too tightly taped to it either... it's gotta be able to move some).

Doesn't eliminate it by 100% ... but maybe 90%.

Hope this helps.

...any yes, just as the article you mentioned says, it's pretty crucial to experiment with snare tension itself... maybe tighten it some to get rid of it... but you'll sacrifice some of the fatness of sound.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:07 pm 
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Yewwww....MicE...that's marching band stuff. We did put tape...and later Moongel...on the top to take out the ring, but never muff the snare spring.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:10 pm 
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It sure is not marching-band stuff, David ;-). I wouldn't want to play in the rain with a strip of kleenex taped to my drums - wouldn't help me any longer than 10 secs.

I'm not talking about muffling here either... I'm simply talking about taking something thin enough as not to interfere with the drums overall sound, but inert enough to keep the snares from unwantedly rattling about the snare head.

...whereas moongel eliminates "ringing" -> overtones, this will eliminate "rattling" -> unwanted movement of the snare against the snare head.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:31 pm 
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found the drum tuning bible here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/DTBv3.pdf

note: the link seems to be dead, but you can right click (with IE) and save target as.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:51 pm 
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Now, that is one great link. I read over the snare section and paged over the other topics. This one gets printed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:57 pm 
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yes.
i printed on the double side printer and made a binder for it.
goes on the shelf next to the bound edition of the G manual.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:45 am 
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I sent this to Mac in a PM, thought it might be helpful for all.

I don't remember where I "stole" the idea from. It certainly isn't my original thought. Here you go:

Rattly snare remedy.

The best trick I know for this without killing the "crack" and "snap" is to duct tap one of the four sides of a small square piece of heavy cloth (maybe 3" x 3" or 4" x 4") to a portion of the snare that will not interfere with the drummers strike point.

When the drummer hits the snare the piece of cloth will flop up allowing the "snap" and "crack" to shine through but will dampen the rattle when it flops back down on the drum head.

Experiment with the size of the cloth square and the density of the material to ensure you don't kill desired tones. This has worked for me before.

Gary


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 Post subject: Errrr
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:05 am 
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Calling The Mighty TuDan!

Ross spent ten minutes changing the heads on my kit and maybe ten more tuning them. He spent three times that amount on installing new snare wire, adjusting said wires and tuning the snare. It still sounds great, no rattle and with a dead ringer - no ring at all.

He really proved it out for me, no tape, no "pads", no tissue, (which had all been tried) just proper adjustment and tuning. To paraphrase him "if it sounds like shite in tha ruem, it'll sound like shite on tha recorder". :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:32 am 
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do you recall what brand of wires and whether string or wire ties?


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 Post subject: Well
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:49 am 
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They were the nicest we could find at -Geno?- Arlington GC. PureSound Percussion. The ends where the snares are captured are copper and they use a synthetic, or maybe coated string.

He spent a lot of time aligning the attachment points on the drum as well as stretching and re-tightening to pre-stretch as it were.

Hopefully he'll be lurking and enlighten us on the snare according to Ross. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:13 am 
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What I remember more than anything was how quickly he reskined and tuned the darn thing.after we got the good parts . I was at the other end of the mic cord when he was doing most of all that. I do remember those clear plastic ring thingies and Ross trying to fix the snare with kite string we found in the shop. :shock:

What I do absolutely remember is how well it sounded when he was done.

I've seen guys take longer to put little E strings on than Ross spent messing with that snare once he had the right parts.

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 Post subject: Amen
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:48 pm 
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'61 wrote:
Calling The Mighty TuDan!

Ross spent ten minutes changing the heads on my kit and maybe ten more tuning them. He spent three times that amount on installing new snare wire, adjusting said wires and tuning the snare. It still sounds great, no rattle and with a dead ringer - no ring at all.

He really proved it out for me, no tape, no "pads", no tissue, (which had all been tried) just proper adjustment and tuning. To paraphrase him "if it sounds like shite in tha ruem, it'll sound like shite on tha recorder". :lol:


Amen to that approach Don. I don't think there is anyone more knowledgeable on this topic than Ross.

My first response to Mac via PM was "get the snare sounding right before you hit the record button". The "fix" I suggested was just that, a fix in a pinch. Heck....I wouldn't even know where to start when it comes to tuning drums or fixing a rattling snare.

Sometimes you only have the drummer available for a limited amount of time and quick fixes (absolutely not the best solution) are a necessary evil.

Gary


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:22 pm 
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one tip i tried was loosening the two lugs to either side of where the snares attach and tightening the remaining lugs. this reduced the rattle quite a bit.
then had to tune the toms up a little bit to reduce the rattle completely.
the only down side to this approach for me is the the snare i am using is a '75 ludwig with only 6 lugs so the sound suffers a bit from this treatment. i have a chrome snare that came with the tama kit, but i don't like that metal sound. i prefer wood or fiberglass.

looks like i'll have to become a drum tuning expert too.
i actually started out as a drummer at 15, but that only lasted about a year so i didn't really have time to learn much. i was pretty funky, tho...!


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 Post subject: Good experience
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:25 pm 
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mcnewsxp wrote:
i actually started out as a drummer at 15, but that only lasted about a year so i didn't really have time to learn much. i was pretty funky, tho...!


I bet this early experience has helped your bass playing.

Gary


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 Post subject: Yup
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:28 pm 
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It's a constant battle for me, tuning and mic'ing and tweaking the kit, I think it's by far the hardest thing to record well.

I expect that Dave will find his drum booth to be a huge part of the equation, it's sure got me thinkin'..... :?

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