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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:01 pm 
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So there I am, having spent two weeks setting up a drum track from the 'ol SD-1 and laying down an infinite number of acoustic guitar tracks, and I decide to put some bass on the tune to give it a little more structure in order to redo the acoustic AGAIN...

So whenever I play a C, everything, especially the bass, drops right out of existance (and wouldn't ya know it, the root of the song is C)...In all the years I've been at this I have NEVER run into phase cancellation on this scale...I tried reversing phase on my outboard pre (SP VTB1), manupulating some mids on the bass to gain presence, nothing's working...If I mute the acoustic, the bass comes back...If I'm playing a complimentary to the root note it sounds fine, but if everybody's on the same note? The effect is not unlike the "pump and breathe" of over compression, though the dynamics processor is bypassed here...

Whadda I gotta do? Detune the bass? Rewrite the bassline to NOT play root notes?

I'm sure I'd eventually figure it all out, but I'm tired and my feet hurt.... :(


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:28 pm 
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make it adjustable and patent it.
i could use one in my car at traffic lights.
at home would be nice on occaission too.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:31 pm 
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If it where phase, it would be happening all over the place. This is comb filtering. Have you listened to it with headphones? It could be the room.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:53 pm 
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OK, no, I haven't put on the phones...The guitar had to be recorded with the Ibeam, as I'm in a basement with lots of extraneous audio input (plumbing, furnace, cat walking around upstairs)...The "room" is a 24'X24' semi-open dungeon, and my nearfields are within 3 feet of me...

...I will endeavor to apply more research...

...Developing...


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:07 pm 
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Location: Where the big toe goes... the foot will follow...
Try stepping either closer to or farther from your monitors - or even changing that angle at which or monitors point at your seat.

I once encountered a similar problem and it was do to the angle at which the monitors were pointing to my seat.

Cin

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:17 pm 
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CindaP wrote:
Try stepping either closer to or farther from your monitors - or even changing that angle at which or monitors point at your seat.

I once encountered a similar problem and it was do to the angle at which the monitors were pointing to my seat.

Cin


Heh heh, farbeit for me to touch that one, but my monitors are angled more towards my ears... :lol: :D :twisted: I'll try it though...

Tried the phones, the phenomena magically dis-ta-peared...Jeez, and I went to an audio production school...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:34 am 
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Comb Filtering? Please explain?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:02 am 
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In this case, it describes a condition in which the reflections in the room cause excessive cancellation of the source fundamental (as well as other) frequencies. The sound bouncing around in a room gets reflected back to our ears at different intervals. By the nature of the time delay, the sound will be in phase at certain frequencies and out of phase at other frequencies, thereby canceling some but letting others through. It's called a comb because those frequencies that get canceled and those that come through resemble a hair comb, for lack of a better analogy. When two instruments are out of phase, all of their common frequencies get cancelled.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:20 am 
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Thanks for taking time to answer that DC! :)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:46 pm 
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You know, what buggers me is the fact that this didn't happen while I was tracking, only on playback...

Eric


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:57 pm 
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Different positions? Comb filtering in a room is as complex as it gets...waves bouncing and converging every whichaway in three dimensional space.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:41 pm 
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I generally try to face away from the monitors when tracking (old habit) and face them when listening...An interesting situation, I may have to look into closing off my 24' X 24' "room" into a tighter space with some foam panels...

Eric


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:58 pm 
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stettoman wrote:
I may have to look into closing off my 24' X 24' "room" into a tighter space with some foam panels...


....or move your monitors/listening position to a different spot in the room.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:05 pm 
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JM wrote:
....or move your monitors/listening position to a different spot in the room.


But this is the first incident in two years of having them set where they are...

Eric


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:39 pm 
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The one good thing about comb filtering is that it is not a problem recorded onto the track.

That is strange about it never happening before in you room before though I guess by definition comb filtering is the result of complex room nodes frequency interactions.

I had a similiar experience in a demo studio set up within a Ford Audio audio retail store. One of our best songs had a very dancable bouncing bass part that alternated from a low open A to an F# on the E string.

During tracking with the phones the bass sounded fine. Through the monitors in my listening position every single F# was filled with complete deafening silence. Everyone else in the room said they still heard it okay but even with the bass guitar solo'd I could not hear a single F# in the entire song. The final mix however sounded fine.

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