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 Post subject: Need a new mic!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:10 pm 
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City Slicker

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:01 am
Posts: 37
I need a new guitar mic. I have an SM-57 and I really don't like it. I want something really high quality. I was told at Guitar Center that the SM-57 is the run of the mill mic. What would be really good to get?


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 Post subject: Need a new mic!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:20 pm 
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The General

Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:20 pm
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motrock wrote:
I need a new guitar mic. I have an SM-57 and I really don't like it. I want something really high quality. I was told at Guitar Center that the SM-57 is the run of the mill mic. What would be really good to get?


What are you recording? Acoustic Guitar? Steel Strings? Nylon? Electric Guitar? Style of music? Amp?

Provide more information and I'll try to help.

Gary


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:06 pm 
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City Slicker

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Electric Guitar. I am recording 2 different amps. One is a Mojave Peacemaker, which is like the old Marshall Plexi's, and the other one is a Splawn Pro Mod, which is like a cross between a Marshall and a Soldano SLO-100. I want to get a little bit better recordings, and it was suggested that I use a much better mic then a SM-57. The guy at Guitar Center told me that an SM-57 was the cheaper more commanly used mic, and that there is much better out there.

Someone threw around the name Seinhizer? (SPELLING?)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:07 pm 
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City Slicker

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I do play at high volumes for good speaker breakup; which is essential for certain sounds I want to get!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:09 pm 
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Wants You
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The Sennheiser E609 is another dynamic mic that is gaining popularity in this application. I don't have one so I can't tell you much about it but it's another $99 job so I'm not sure it falls in the 'much better mic' category.

Other than that, you might want to look into a condenser mic of which there are a multitude of choices.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:22 pm 
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City Slicker

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I have had some people telling me about condenser mics.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:42 pm 
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Wants You
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Location: Hamilton Square, NJ
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You might want to check out some of these sites for info concerning condensers:

http://homerecording.com/bbs/
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/index.php


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 Post subject: Electric Guitar miking
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:46 pm 
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The General

Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:20 pm
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motrock wrote:
Electric Guitar. I am recording 2 different amps. One is a Mojave Peacemaker, which is like the old Marshall Plexi's, and the other one is a Splawn Pro Mod, which is like a cross between a Marshall and a Soldano SLO-100. I want to get a little bit better recordings, and it was suggested that I use a much better mic then a SM-57. The guy at Guitar Center told me that an SM-57 was the cheaper more commanly used mic, and that there is much better out there.

Someone threw around the name Seinhizer? (SPELLING?)


Hey Mo,

A few opinions from me....they are opinions not gospel.

- I have a SM57. The dude @ GC that was somewhat dissing the SM57 is a moron. The SM 57 is a great mic for distorted "in your face" guitar sounds. To my ears, the 57 can sound a little bit dark. Throw a 57 on one of your speaker cones, find the sweet spot and hit record. Tough to mess that one up.

- I also have the Sennheiser e609. Also a very good mic for guitar cabs, though much brighter and open sounding (to me) than the SM57. The e609 is also far less placement sensitive and you don't even need to use a mic stand with this one. Just hang the cord over the amp with the mic positioned where you want it. It will stay there.

Yeah, condensers work on guitar cabs when you want alot of detail. They sometimes sound a bit brittle to me when I use them stand alone. I like condensers as a 2nd (somewhat ambient) mic on distorted guitar, usually about 3 ft away from the amp with the height positioned to taste. I'll close mic with the 57 or 609 and use one of my large diapraghm condensers as an ambient mic, record them to seperate tracks, then mix 'em together to get the best of both worlds.....balz from the close mics and depth/clarity from the LDC. If you use the two mic process be careful of phase issues. If your mic placement causes phase cancellation you'll end up with mud.

Gary


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:58 pm 
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Guitar Ho
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I'll also throw in for Sennheiser...great mics especially the 900 series. Beats the tar out of Shure. I bought a 900 series drum kit just before I moved and closed down the studio. In it is the kick e902...put it on a bass amp and wow...sweet definition. With its range, it'd work fine for a guitar amp as well, but I have yet to try it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:01 pm 
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Tenderfoot
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Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 6:34 am
Posts: 531
Location: Morrisville, Vermont
I love those guys at GC who do things like diss 57's-totally missing the point. I would venture many of the greatest guitar (and vocal) tracks have come from the humble (and truly indestructable) 57. Whether is is a good guitar mic or not is not even up for discussion, howvever whether it is the right mic for you is another matter. I HATE 57's on my voice, much preferring 58's...but that's me. Your guitar, your pre's, your amps, your strings, your picks, your style, your ears and your engineering chops are the consideration for what works for you. My suggestion. Find a local soundguy you admire and ask him how he gets good sounds...first off, I'm SURE he'll talk your ear off about it, and secondly, you will learn where to start and what parameters to include/rule out. The best mic in the world won;t make a dogs**t guitar sound come alive, but any old cheap 57 ( or other mic) can make a great performance ring.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:17 pm 
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City Slicker

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Posts: 37
Guys, I have starting to think, maybe I just need to get that new preamp. The mic might not have anything to do with what I am hearing. Just like I stated in the other thread, the AW16Gs preamp has much to be desired. I think that will be a good place to start. I will get a new preamp and use my SM-57. I might even get a new mic cable. The cable could be part of it also. The GC guy did run down the SM-57s. I was just assuming that he knew what he was talking about. That is why I come on here. You guys seem to know more than them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:28 pm 
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Tenderfoot
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Location: Morrisville, Vermont
motrock wrote:
Guys, I have starting to think, maybe I just need to get that new preamp. The mic might not have anything to do with what I am hearing. Just like I stated in the other thread, the AW16Gs preamp has much to be desired. I think that will be a good place to start. I will get a new preamp and use my SM-57. I might even get a new mic cable. The cable could be part of it also. The GC guy did run down the SM-57s. I was just assuming that he knew what he was talking about. That is why I come on here. You guys seem to know more than them.

A 57 or a 58 though the G's preamps is a fairly uninspiring sound (at least for some). There are numerous inexpensive pres that will make a huge leap in the quality of the sound while spening less than $100-$150 (see other threads). Some sound beter than others, but few will sound worse than the mic straight in....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:30 pm 
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Has Been To Cheeseland
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I'm with Stacy on this one. You should be able to get a good guitar sound from a 57........millions of others have. Why wouldn't the guy at GC want to sell you something much more expensive.

I also have the Sennheiser e609s and prefer it over the 57, but they are in the same ballpark. I'll echo Gary's comments on it - much more forgiving of placement (important to me with extremely limited time for recording). Also, brighter than the 57 - I find it has a more "in your face" sound which is good for the hard rock/punk I've done with it thus far.

Go for that preamp and spend some time playing with mic placement before you opt for a new mic. You can get a lot of different sounds out of a 57 just by moving it a bit.


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 Post subject: e609
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:50 pm 
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The General

Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:20 pm
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I deal with a very knowledgeable sales rep @ GC....also a good smart guy who understands the value of repeat business and referrals.

He sold me my e609 for $70 which I believe is close to cost. I think the list price is $109 or $119. If you are thinking about a 609, there is plenty of negotiation wiggle room.

Gary


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:09 pm 
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Tenderfoot
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Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 6:34 am
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Location: Morrisville, Vermont
JM wrote:
You can get a lot of different sounds out of a 57 just by moving it a bit.

Real sage advice there- close one ear and turn your head sideways to the amp, so that your head becomes the mic, movements of an inch here or there yield huge differences in sound.

_________________
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 Post subject: Mic position
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:12 pm 
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The General

Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:20 pm
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stacy wrote:
JM wrote:
You can get a lot of different sounds out of a 57 just by moving it a bit.

Real sage advice there- close one ear and turn your head sideways to the amp, so that your head becomes the mic, movements of an inch here or there yield huge differences in sound.


As will on or off axis.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:37 pm 
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Has Been To Cheeseland
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Location: Just west of DEE-troit
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I read a lot before I got my G about mic placement affecting recorded tone. Once I got the G the geek engineer in me decided to create a reference song documenting this phenomenon. :oops:

I created a chart with loads of tracks and virtual tracks, and played the same riff over and over again, with the three or four mics I had at the time in positions ranging from center of speaker to the outer edge, right on the grill to a foot out, and straight on or angled. Every once in a while I open that song up, pull out the graph, and am amazed at the sheer variety of tones that a single mic in different positions can yield.


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