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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:14 am 
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Greenhorn
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Hi there,

until now i use the G only for live recording of our band practices. One of my biggest problem is micing the drummers voice (background). He's voice is good (in my opinion) but it is relatevly thin. Now i have the problem of the placement of the mic. It takes more of the snare and of the toms than of his voice. If i place the mic that it comes from down to up, then he will not be able to play because the stand is disturbing him.

Does anybody know if there will be something like a dynamic headphone mic that will be very close to the singers mouth?

Thank u in advance

Peter


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:39 am 
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I think this has been mentioned before, Peiter. No mic in the world is going to solve this problem. Even the tightest directional mic is going to pic up those drums. It's signal to noise...the noise being those drums in this situation. His voice can't compete with them. A quality headphone mic, which are relatively expensive, would help, but only a little (though it would give a lot more freedom to the drummer).

A gate would not help either. Once the gate opens, everything comes in anyway and it would sound most unnatural with the gain on that mic you must be applying for his thin voice. The gate would open and whomp! the drums would suddenly increase and displace the stereo field.

You should really try and have him sing a separate track after the band is recorded.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:52 pm 
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Is his voice thin even when he isn't playing the drums?

There are a lot of peole that have "thin" voices that use things like hardware or software to correct/thicken the voice.

One of the things that I've added to my rig is the "Antares AVP-1" which does vocal doubling.

Something to consider...

Cin

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:22 pm 
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I suppose his voice is thin whether he's playing or not. The trouble is the drums are stomping all over the vocals while he plays.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:54 pm 
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I think i've got a solution:

Now i use a supercardioid Shure Beta58A Microphone. You can use this directly (2 cm ) before the mouth. I placed the stand so that the stand comes from left up up to down and the mic shows nearly directly back. so the back of the mic points in an angle of about -60 ° to the snare /hihat and about -45° to the drummers monitor box (he's left hand drumming, snare is on the right).

I experienced a little with it in the room (looking on the meters of the my mixer: When i have a 0db signal on a thin voice, i have about -20db on the snare pushing it very strong. The hihat is about -18db (and thats ok because in the practice room i mic snare/hihat together which gives me a relatively loud snare and low hihat).

Unfortunately we are not going to practice today - we have our yearly "end of the year dinner". But maybe next week i can give you some more feedback of about how it works.

Yours

Peetr


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:55 pm 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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DCinFrance wrote:
You should really try and have him sing a separate track after the band is recorded.


Definately the hot set setup and is how I would do him.

He could also sing along during the first take and then "double" on a second with out drums. Worth a try that to see how it works.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:07 pm 
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Guitar Ho
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Yeah, I was thinking double it as well. The trouble is, that mic also works to center the drum kit (assuming that's where the voice is placed--center field--but doesn't matter, it will skew it if not at center).

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:09 pm 
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mrskygod wrote:
DCinFrance wrote:
You should really try and have him sing a separate track after the band is recorded.


Definately the hot set setup and is how I would do him.

He could also sing along during the first take and then "double" on a second with out drums. Worth a try that to see how it works.


I've found that using this method, with a blend of mostly the "overdub" or "doubled" vocal, works well. The little bit of the "original" vocal blended in seems to make the vocal "sit" better in the mix, and makes it sound more like it was part of the same performance, rather than a "sterile" overdub.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:14 pm 
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i think he's trying to record *live* rehearsals so over-dubbing isn't the solution.
i think an SM57 up as close as the drummer can stand and living with drum bleed is as good as it can get.
lots of live albums have been released with drummers who sing.
of course i suppose many of them would include over dubs.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:09 pm 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Yeah the SM-57 in yer face is a good idea and to take it one step further , Aurolex makes cool mic sound insulators . I have a set of these and the work pretty darn good.

Image
Image

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:19 pm 
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that Aurolex stuff can definitely soak up some sound

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:09 am 
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Hi all there,

1st of all - many thanks for all the tips. I'll definetifely trie out skygods tip.

Yesterday we had a meeting and the 1st thing that we will do is to isolate the whole room (Because until now we have plain stone walls and that gives many reflections).

Then we will go on to work on a good live sound - because our main interest is to play live.

With the tips of the forum i am very shure that we can than do real good live recordings (and that's what we mainly want). If - sometime - we intend to make a professional recording, we will do seperate recording sessions with recording the instruments one after another.


I wish to all of you a really happy and successful new year and hope that there will sometime be a meeting with some members of the forum.

Yours

Peter


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