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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:15 am 
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Ultra Botkiller
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I was on my way home, when something told me to stop by my favorite local pawn shop.

Since next week is my last week of travel, I wanted to make sure that my studio would be set for when I get off the road.

For $250 they sold me the following:

Phonic T8100 Tube VocalMax

and

Audio Technica AT4050

I actually like the way the Phonic sounds better than the Behringer Ultravoice VX2000

The Behringer always seamed to be too raspy. The phonic is very smooth...

I used the Phonic to put the Audio-Technica through it's paces... it checked out fine as well.

This makes my vocal arsenal:

MXL VK67G
AKG C 3000 G
Audio Technica AT4050

THis is going to be a good year of recording.

Cin

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:31 am 
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Not to rain on yer parade Cinda but the unit you bought is IMO a cut above the Behringer unit (however thin) It looks like you bought a used Taipei made one with a decent mic for the street price new for the Pre. They listed new for $269. The bright news is you killed him on the mic , $600 street price on a new one. I'm amazed how innocent pawnbrokers act when they want to "get rid" of something , sometimes goof up. I learned in the gun business a long time ago that pawn shops were a great place for sex. (If you like getting screwed) It's all in their favor......they probably gave some poor person ( or thief) $200 and I guarantee they know what everything is worth on the street or they won't write a pawn ticket on it. Once out the door it's yours , no ifs , ands or buts. At least on E-bay you have recourse with the seller , pay-pal or your credit card company if things go pear shaped.

What I'm trying to say Cinda is you lucked out this time. Be extra carefull about buying complex electrical gear from a pawnbroker. (or guns for that matter which is another of my long stories)


Enjoy playing with the tube pre. I like 'em.
msg

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:55 am 
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I agree with you MSG... that's why I'm glad he threw the Phonic in for free.

Really... this pawn shop is in the country. A lot of people go out and buy things for either their home studio or perform, then pawn it here - where they get more money than they will at GuitarCenter.

Because I'm a frequent shopper, I'll uually get things for $5 or $10 more than what they paid for them.

Cin

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:46 am 
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It's nice to have a good push-pull tube amp along with a class A solid state amp as well. Both have advanatges depending on what you are doing. I like my UA 610's so well I'm gonna go back and buy a pair of 110's before the rebate program runs out. A good quality class A push-pull will make any mic sound a lot better. That's what I have learned in my latest GAS attack. Dollar for dollar a good preamp is in your face noticeable. High dollar mics thru the same pres are not as dramatic to my ears. DC has one of those high dollar Neuman mics and would be more qualifed in the OMG price range to bear this out.

Dave , think you could ship it over here for an evaluation in a 10ft padded crate?

Hell what?

That's what I thought I heard.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:15 am 
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True enough, I'd put my money on the pre. Once you get over the entry level stuff, the difference in mics is a fine line. The difference you notice is over time. Of my low end mics, this one's good for a particular voice and the other not. This other's good for acoustic but not for vocals. The good mic seems good at everything I throw at it.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:50 pm 
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DCinFrance wrote:
True enough, I'd put my money on the pre. Once you get over the entry level stuff, the difference in mics is a fine line. The difference you notice is over time. Of my low end mics, this one's good for a particular voice and the other not. This other's good for acoustic but not for vocals. The good mic seems good at everything I throw at it.


As you can tell by my buying habits, I'm a bargain hunter... I'm always looking for a god sale.

From my perspective, I was allowed to get this because of the deal that I got on the Voiceworks.

I was adding up the purchase that I did over the last couple months and say that if I would have purchased everything new it would have cost around $3000, and I totalled in under $1000.

That being said, you really don't find good used pre-amps... no I'll probably have to save up my pennies and get an upgrade next year.

What do you consider a good pre-amp? Am I looking for anything that's marked "Class A"? What are your recommendations?

Cin

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:50 pm 
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First, I'm a great believer in tubes when recording digital...well, anything really: guitar amp? Give me tubes. Tubes add harmonics, and that's what gives the sound what people refer to as "warm".

Class A? You want a technical explanation? :D

Suffice to say that, power wise, it is very inefficient. The benefit is that very little re-feeding of the amp circuit is used, so stability and phase is excellent over the audio frequencies.

Most of the low end tube pre's are of a "starved plate" design. Low voltage. Many will argue till blue that this sucks and just adds noise. No, it works to a great degree, but a Class A, tube on the outputs will give you a beautiful sound and powerful, linear amplification.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:13 pm 
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I'll take the technical definition of Class A... I'll ask my Dad to explain it to my while I'm visiting...

Cin

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:49 pm 
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If I recall my electronics lessons correctly (I was never good at analog circuits), the benefit to a Class A amplifier is that it doesn't need to be biased. Since you don't need to add a DC offset to the incoming signal, you don't need to remove it as it leaves the circuit. Removal of DC is usually accomplished with a capacitor which causes a phase shift. The output of a class A amp should be truer to the input for this reason.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:00 pm 
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It's more than just biasing...but that's true enough. It's a much simpler circuit for sure. Too, you are throwing real power at those tubes.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:42 pm 
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Location: Where the big toe goes... the foot will follow...
Baby steps...

Hopefuly I'll mae some money this year with my studio... then I'll consider upgrades.

Maybe I'll have a studio naming contest...

Studio Chateau Neuf Sud

Cin

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:38 pm 
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DCinFrance wrote:
Suffice to say that, power wise, it is very inefficient.



Is that why my 32 watt class a kicks much more inefficient butt than all the other AB's or B's in the studio?

I always thought they were more efficient because on the grand scale of things the speaker magnet in a class A does the same amount of work whether the circuit it "pushing" away it or "pulling" against it .

At least that's what I remember Mr. Greenjeans telling me once on Captain Kangaroo.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:06 am 
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No, read up Cowboy. The amount of power consummed is like 3 to 1 over an AB with nothing going through it (quiescent state). At best, a Class A design will have an efficiency (power in-power out) of less than 33% at full power, and which can fall to half that or more depending on the circumstances.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:25 am 
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That's why they get so frickin hot ?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:03 am 
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Yup. Conservation of energy. Heat is what balances the equation in this case.

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 Post subject: TUBE PRE VOCAL SAMPLES
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:24 pm 
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dear every one,

please don't feel that i am poking fun when i ask:

does any one here have online samples (mp3) of your works using any of these devices that you are all discussing?

i am seriously shopping for a vocal recording mic 'n spider mount, a mic pre and plan to shove it into a Yammie phantom pre. i read something about Audio Buddy so now i'm also wondering can you shove a phantom into a phantom?

so where's the beef? what brand? and if anyone has the right stuff can i listen to it?

i'm dizzy reading specs here in the forums. and i'm serious when i say that it appears that a whole bunch of people with real nice equipment don't seem to have any audio samples on the Internet, that i can listen to, in order to make any determination as to what i should buy. Or better yet, i can't even compare what i'm considering to buy versus what you're using! They are old but i have some snippets on my website, and back then, my mic was a (wired) Audio Acoustica condenser headMic, phantom and recorded using a 16-bit PC soundcard which ended up sounding darn tootin' considering i was using junk compared to the toys you people are talkin' about. it blows my mind nobody has samples, demos, recordings, something to listen to. uhh... you do record don't you?

please no lectures: just the facts. thank you ;;smile;;

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:24 pm 
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The audio samples you are looking for are probably best obtained by listening to the songs poated by the users on on this forum. Having two or three dozen different mics and score of preamps , posting indivdual samples of all the permutations of the this hardware is beyond the scope of my interest or time. Gary , Sleepy , Rob , RZ , 60's Guy , Miceater and many others have their personal favorite combinations posted here. Also we all strive to upgrade our gear as we progress. My early recodeings were run direct with no external pre. A couple of years ago I bought a Focusrite Twintrax Pro class A preamp. It has a very nice opto-compressor built in as well. I considered it the "cat's meow" until I heard my late friend Don's Avalon tube pre - Bluebird mic combination. Needing a stereo pre and not wanting to buy two Avalons , I opted for a pair of Universal Audio LA-610s . I really like the sound of tube preamps and I am quite happy with these. My second favorite (and much more affordable) is the MPA Gold series preamp. Like the UA 610 , it has gobs gain and variable plate loading .

msg

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 Post subject: thanks!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:41 pm 
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mrskygod wrote:
The audio samples you are looking for are probably best obtained by listening to the songs poated by the users on on this forum. Having two or three dozen different mics and score of preamps , posting indivdual samples of all the permutations of the this hardware is beyond the scope of my interest or time. Gary , Sleepy , Rob , RZ , 60's Guy , Miceater and many others have their personal favorite combinations posted here. Also we all strive to upgrade our gear as we progress. My early recodeings were run direct with no external pre. A couple of years ago I bought a Focusrite Twintrax Pro class A preamp. It has a very nice opto-compressor built in as well. I considered it the "cat's meow" until I heard my late friend Don's Avalon tube pre - Bluebird mic combination. Needing a stereo pre and not wanting to buy two Avalons , I opted for a pair of Universal Audio LA-610s . I really like the sound of tube preamps and I am quite happy with these. My second favorite (and much more affordable) is the MPA Gold series preamp. Like the UA 610 , it has gobs gain and variable plate loading .

msg


MSG thanks for reality replies! i copied your text and will look into those products as well. I thought the quietness of the Rode NT1A was superb and i can only imagine connecting that up to an LA-610 would be smooth cruising. Also, i never realized that Soundclick was free so i never signed up and thus never listened to yours or other folks links in their signatures. my apology to all for my previous unecessary post. i'll get friendlier when i'm neck deep in recording <<i promise>> thanks again =)

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