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 Post subject: Voice processors
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:44 am 
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Boot Polisher

Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:40 pm
Posts: 92
Location: Michigan
I stuggle to get the sound I want on my vocals more than anything else and was thinking about getting a vocal processor with
pre sets into the"G"..I was looking at the Antares vocal producer at
400 bucks I was wondering if it was worth the investment??
Or maybe there is another better choice??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:53 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Hi Holly , long time no see. I'm not a vocalist but I have a TC Helicon Voiceworks. I has a 100 or so presets for enhancement and harmony. It also does pitch correction. It's a heck of a lot easier letting it pitch correct going in than correcting a vocal already recorded. They are on e-bay for around $400 now. TC Helicon makes high quality stuff. I've been mulling over the Voice Prism Plus for a while and may be my next major purchase. My voice needs all the help it can get.

msg

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:19 am 
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Boot Polisher

Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:40 pm
Posts: 92
Location: Michigan
I think the last time we talked, you and Robbie were teaching me how
to use my filters..They've helped me out of a lot of Mud...
I've seen the T.C. Helicon ads. Do they have a lot of eq & Compression
presets too?
My biggest problem isn't pitch it's more like I have a thin voice
thats much better suited for harmony
I'm definetely not the lead singer type,but I keep tryin'
Maybe I should write some more Instumentals...
I've never tried using any EQ or compression going thru my imput channels
only on my track channels
Often my vocals sound like they have mystery reverb on them when
i have my effects (send) in bypass


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:36 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Holley wrote:
My biggest problem isn't pitch it's more like I have a thin voice thats much better suited for harmony


Check out the TC Helicon Voice Pro

OR

Voice Prism

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:21 am 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Hi Holley. :hello2:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:32 am 
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Tenderfoot
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Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:37 am
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Location: Australia
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Hi Holley,

like MSG, I need all the help I can get in the vocal department. I too use a TC Helicon Voiceworks, always on the way in, although the manual says it is more difficult to stay in tune when what you hear is not what you are singing. Believe me, you wouldn't want to hear my uncorrected vocals. The unit also shows you the amount of correction applied and what is needed is staggering.

I record the vocals a line at a time in multiple passes on sequential tracks. I then clean them up and bounce them all together to make a composite track, smoothing out the levels at the same time. Initially you could hear the joins but I'm much better at it now. The vocal is the most important element of the song and so deserves all the attention you can give it.

My latest effort will be on the Christmas CD. It was my worst raw vocal recording ever (it took all day- and such a simple song) but came out reasonably presentable (cringe factor only 2 out of 10). So, unless you have perfect pitch, have an 'interesting' voice, or see yourself primarily as a singer, I'd definitely recommend a correction unit. All the established recording artists use them and most of them can already sing!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:53 pm 
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Boot Polisher

Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:40 pm
Posts: 92
Location: Michigan
Thanks for the info on the voice processors guys..
I'll definely check them out. I've got a little money in
the kitty that I've been itching to spend.

Is the TC Helicon pretty easy to use??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:47 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Speaking for the Voiceworks (the one I have)

Once you grasp how it works it's fairly simple. One way in pitch correction (or harmony) is to play cords into it as you sing. I use this method by playing a sequence into it freeing up the hands for say a guitar track at the same time or wahtever. The machine will pitch correct or harmonize to what midi notes are held. No speaka midi ? Well you can also set in a key and the machine knows what notes are in that key. You can also set custom scales or omit notes from traditional scales.
Those notes will be ignored and the rest manipulated. If you get one be sure to buy the optional 3 button footswitch. It's very handy to turn the harmony on and off.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:37 pm 
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Hyper Quoter

Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:58 pm
Posts: 838
Geno, I've also got the Voiceworks...since the outputs are unbalanced on the 16G's monitor outs, and the outputs are balanced on the Voiceworks, when I playback the Voiceworks through my monitors I hear a high-pitch oscillation sound...I've noticed it only happens when I have the ouputs of the VoiceWorks going to one of the inputs of the 16G line inputs....during recording I hear it, but when I unplug the input, and then play back the 16G recording, I do not hear it at all....it only happens once the outputs of the Voiceworks are connected to the inputs of the 16G...I am also using balanced cables, thinking that this might solve the problem...but it didnt...do you have the same issue?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:45 pm 
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Guitar Ho
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I have the Quintet...no such problems. One does have to watch out for feedback loops, but that has been explained to you already and I think you solved that problem.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:22 pm 
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Hyper Quoter

Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:58 pm
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Thanks for replying DC..I don't think it would be a feedback loop that I'm hearing.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:27 pm 
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Guitar Ho
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Do you have the G's power supply and the power to the VW going to the same socket?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:48 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Yep either feedback or multiple monitoring of the signal.

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 Post subject: VOCAL PROCESSING
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:54 am 
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Greenhorn
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:52 am
Posts: 117
Location: NASAV_studios
Favourite food: cold milk
Machine type: AW4416
It is my opinion that having quality vocal processing is paramount to produce an impressive recording. As for myself I have already budgeted for the Focusrite Voicemaster Platinum Pro to manage my ONE mic pre along with using TC Helicon for live and vocal tracks post production. I'm still wavering between VoiceWorks/VoicePrism/VoiceOne and their stompbox VoiceLive which i find appealing because i can have interactive vocal effects processing "on the fly" during recording as well as gigs out of the house. No question about it, even if you sing great, quality mics, mic pre's and vocal processing including pitch correction "going in" (as MSG said) is the only way to go if you want impressive results.

[on a backburner thought, i'm still hoping i can use an AW as an I/O device to save that money to buy the Voicemaster]

happy shopping!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:33 am 
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Hyper Quoter

Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:58 pm
Posts: 838
Ive the 16G and the Voicworks and all my other equipment that I use .connected to a APC battery backup/surge protector.

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 Post subject: UPS POWER AND RECORDING
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:17 am 
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Greenhorn
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:52 am
Posts: 117
Location: NASAV_studios
Favourite food: cold milk
Machine type: AW4416
MitchM2005 wrote:
Ive the 16G and the Voicworks and all my other equipment that I use .connected to a APC battery backup/surge protector.


Mitch i can surely appreciate your mentioning surge protection and more importantly backup power!

I live in an RV and travel the USA. Most of the time I am tethered to a solid 30amp service, but still, i use backup power supply because you never know when for circumstances beyond anything you're doing, a breaker pops or you lose power... and then that "perfect take" you just were close to finishing is lost in a nano-second!

Glad to hear you're using Voiceworks with your 16g. Are you using additional mic pre before the 16g? From what i have heard thus far from all outboard recorders and even the 800 I/O rigs for computer DAWs, they all need mic pre help if you really want nice, hot controllable vocals.
(at first i was really unimpressed with how many of the built in XLRs with their gains cranked to 100% still isnt even enough)

anyhow, cheers to you & your 16g and happy holidays!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:30 am 
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Hyper Quoter

Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:58 pm
Posts: 838
Hi Harry, I'm trying to get used to using a preamp, I've got a couple... one is a dbx ProVocal...which DC would know, with all the times that I come on here asking the same questions over and over about how to use it, :wink: has its pros and cons...its a mic/pre-amp modeler and its instructions are not at all easy for me to comprehend...its hard to explain it on this forum, but there is a drive and a gain, and then there is tube 0 through 9 which gets progressively overdriven...the problem is that if I am using the dbx preamp going into the 16G,and if the dbx's preamp is bypassed...then the level coming out from the dbx into the 16G, is close to unity gain, but as soon as I turn on the tube emulator, i've have now lost about 50% signal...recently I started playing with it, and found out that if the drive and the gain are set to 50% then thats equivalent to the same level as if the dbx was bypassed...but then the other problem is once I keep going to another tube preamp emulation, my signal going into the 16G drops significantly, and I can't understand why...especially since the lights on the dbx do not show peaking or clipping at all... :?
plus, I'm confused about this aspect about digital recording...if the goal on the 16G is to get a "hot" input signal as possible w/o clipping....the provocal will not let me get a "hot" signal...its around -12 to -18dbfs on the 16G when it shows up...even the dbx's gain will not increase it...but then you could always eventually add a compressor to boost the mixing level...which i'm strongly thinking about doing...
As for the Voiceworks...I haven't used it for a while, I'll play around with both preamps and see what's going on...it seems with the Voiceworks...I get a strong input on the meter -10 to -5 dB...but on the 16G...again...it too is very low...and I'm using a Shure Beta 58 mic...its probably one of the outputs on the Voiceworks is set too low...but I want to play with it and see why i'm getting a low signal from the Voiceworks to the 16G...I don't want to increase the signal by increasing the 16G's preamp. :shock:

Sorry about my ramblings guys... :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:15 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Harry I don't know if you are aware of the not too shabby preamp built into the Voiceworks machine. IMO it's as good or better than the Focusrite.
Why do I think so? I have it's big brother the Twin Tracks Pro. But.......
don't lose sight of the class A operation of the Voicemaster or it's intuitive optical compresser. It was my pre of choice until I went the medium price tube route. A good mic direct into the TC will yield great results without extending the signal chain all over your studio.

Just some half sober thoughts from an old man.

msg

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:12 am 
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Tenderfoot
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MSG - I couldn't agree more. I use a Rode studio valve condensor (K2) straight into the Voiceworks and then the G. I get very crisp, clean, and transparent , professional results and miles more output than I need to keep the G's preamps at zero. Even though I am ready for another toy, I don't think the marginal quality increase will be another preamp for vocals yet. Now, if only it could actually sing as well!

I don't think the SM58 will cut it for recording vocals, except perhaps heavy rock.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:17 am 
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Guitar Ho
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Yeah, the TC Helicon pre's are solid state pre's. I still prefer the tubes, but anytime I need to throw another vocal mic into the fray, I'll go to it first.

Too, I exclusively use condensor mics (or a tube mic) for vocals, but you'd be surprised how many people...pro artists...insist on using dynamic mics. Saw a video of the recording of the Black Album by Metallica...they recorded the vocals with an SM57!!

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