The DijonStock Digital Home Recording Support Forum

Hi guys, i have a little problem and don't know how to solve it.
Yesterday i used my aw 4416 to make a PA and to record at same time the bends.
My problem is that after 1 hour the recording stopped probably not enough hard drive memory and half hour later i lost the exit signal on the monitor out. The omni-aux still worked but the monitor out stopped (i had 3 monitors, so i used 3 omni exits).. later when the happening was finished i got it back by clicking some buttons still don't know witch but i got it back.
then i listened the recording and it jumps, don't know how to explain my self, my english unfortunately is pour .
Like when a cd is scratched it jumps half second ahead..
I was recording something like 14-15 channels at the same time and the sampling frequency was 44.1? could it be that the sampling frequency was too high for so many channels? and could it be that working as a PA miks and also as a recorder on 44.1 FS was too much?
The question is if the recording stopped half hour earlier why did i lost the exit signal on the monitor out after half hour? if the recording stopped then the miks was not overloaded anymore, or not? i just can't understand what could it be. Please help me, i love this miks but now i'm depressed because i'm not sure if it is maybe damaged or have some software issues?
Anybody had the same problem?
Thanks for any possible help guys

i just realize that i did not run out of memory it used just 6.5 gb of memora out of 60gb that i have.
What happened? Does anybody knows?

Is there a continuous recording time limit on the Yamaha`s ??
Somebody that knows more than me will be around soon to give you some advice I`m sure.
Hope you get sorted.

T.

_________________
https://tmacmusic12.wixsite.com/tmac1

https://tmacmusic12.wixsite.com/tmac

http://www.soundcloud.com/t-mac-12

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmCjAzN ... ture=watch

https://www.reverbnation.com/tmac

I'd check the 4416 for specs regarding the maximum "size" of a single recording. I do believe the G has such a limit. This was changed for the 1600 and 2400, if memory serves me.

If your machine was armed to record, you would have been monitoring the track signal (not the inputs) . So if a song file was terminated abruptly, I think it would result in abrupt silence.

I am not a 4416 user - but this is my guess.

On a different note, the 4416 allows you to do what you were trying to do. (within the file size limit that may exist)

the newer model - AW 2400 - has a quirk that mutes track monitoring when multiple inputs are assigned, so the best you can get for a monitor signal during a "from the floor" recording, is 12 tracks at 16 bit and 6 tracks at the higher (24) bit. You can record to a muted track, just not listen to it (until you mute one other track and then unmute the track you want to hear). Your use of the omni outs is perhaps the work around for my 2400, as file size is unrestricted. In your case though, look for the file size specs, as suggested.

As for the 44.1 sample rate, you have no choice (unless a 48 kHz option is allowed. but this is a higher rate.) If your machine does limit file size and also offers a 16 bit/ 24 bit option - use the 16 bit to mazimize the length of your song file, as 16 bit uses much less memory.

_________________
Byron

Like the AW16G, the 4416 has a 6.4 GB song limit.

_________________

---

Don't judge the coffee by its cup.
The proof of the cheese is in the eating

I use a AW4416 and it does have a 6.4 GB song limit.

Really ? did not knew that:( in fact at the end the file song was around the 6.4gb ..
But why the recording was so bad? it recorded 52minutes and it was a shitty recording because it jumps sometimes a hole second, and it happens during the hole 52 minutes.. there is some pieces of 2 minutes where the recording don't jump but i dont have any entire song without jumping.. it makes me crazy..
And after all i set the miks to do PA and only after i press to record and it worked all fine.. after the recording stopped on the black screen on the left where u see the equalizing there was no signal incomming. After 20 minutes i did'not hade any signal on the monitor out witch i connected to the PA in front.. the omni out worked fine without problems still after the problems occured..
Ps: sorry for my english..

I'm not sore anymore that the monitor out stopped working half hour later, because i was on stage playing when it all happened and the guy that was changing me didn't notice that the miks stopped recording or that the Pa stopped until we played a song where the singer couldn't be heard and he went to rise the volume of the singers channel. It was a small happening in a small place so our monitoring on stage was just enough to be heard, the amps was quite powerfull so maybe that's why he didn't notice it. so i think maybe could it be related whit the stopping of recording? how could i solve this problem if is the case?
For me is still a mystery why the PA worked before recording and didn't after it stopped.. and the problem about the jumping of the recorded track .. I don't know.. i'm loosing fate in this miks for any future use other than home recording instrument per instrument..

Jumpy like that sounds like a hard drive issue. Was the 4416 on stage with you? maybe it was getting bounced around?? (long shot guess)

As for the PA, if you were set up to record, the signal being sent to the monitor outs is from the tracks, not from the inputs directly. when the recording stopped, the assignments of the inputs to the tracks was probably broken, which would change the delivery of signal to the stereo bus -- hence your PA problem. -- This is my best guess, never having encountered the file size limit problem personally.

_________________
Byron

Well the miks was just near a speaker, something like 3 cm from the speakers due to a multicore shortness and miks stand being full of power amps.
Maybe that could be the problem, maybe the power of the sound coming up from the speakers did the record sound this way?
I will try to do an experiment and record with my band at the rehearsals. Hope this was the problem..
"As for the PA, if you were set up to record, the signal being sent to the monitor outs is from the tracks, not from the inputs directly."
I'm confused, i understand what u want to say but why then i had the signal before pressing record and play buttons to start recording? Wouldn't then be logical that the output signal come only when recording ? i will try a few experiments and see what change when the miks is far from the speakers, when i just send the signal out for PA without recording.
Is it possible to somehow set up the monitor out signal so that don't stop to send out the signal on the monitor out when the recording stops?
I was using the monitor out jacks because the stereo out has a different connection type, and i didn't had a cabel like that..

It would be hard to bench test my suggestion. But i suspect that when the file size limit was reached, the file was abruptly aborted. If i am right, the input > track assignments (you made when setting up in preparation to record) would be cut, leaving no signal being sent from the tracks to the stereo bus. the inputs would still be active, but they are not assigned to the stereo bus during recording, so they would need to be assigned to the stereo bus after the input>track assignments were cut. The fact that your omni outs still delivered signal indicates that the inputs were indeed live, just not properly assigned.

As for the HD, other more knowledgable of computers may want to comment on the placement of your recorder so close to the loud speaker system.

English lesson - by miks - i think you are trying to say mixer. You were using the AW as your mixer (of signals)

When you say "miks stand being full of power amps" i think you mean the "rack was full of power amps" A box used to mount and store pieces of audio gear is commonly called a rack.

Your English is certainly good enough for me to understand your problem? what is your native language?

_________________
Byron

I'm from Croatia, usually i don't use English very much that's why it's a little bit difficult to express my self, sorry about that. well when i say stand, i mean stand because it was a modified keyboard stand with 3 levels.. yes by miks i mean mixer here in croatia we say mikser ..
As far as the bus assigning i'm really a dummy in it.. very new in using any kind of mixers or multi-track recorders. Could you explain your self little bit more easier for me to understand and or if u can explain exactly ,possibly step by step, what should i do to solve and avoid this type of problem to repeat?

My first problem that i'm noticing is that a don't have a clue what is the stereo bus. Or if you will i can't understand it's purpose . as far as i understand it is a stereo channel where my 16 track get mixed in just 2 left and right. and here is what i don't understand how is it possible record 16 track on 2 tracks and than after edit again every single channel for it self.. if somebody could explain that to me i would appreciate it .. i tried to learn it, by google-ing it but without success every thing that i found was incomprehensive for me..

For someone that does not use English very often, your English is great. So don't worry about that.

_________________

---

Don't judge the coffee by its cup.
The proof of the cheese is in the eating

No problem. We will try.

The stereo bus is where all the channels are mixed, yes. Access to the stereo bus is assigned (on/ off switches) and levels to it are set (volume) This includes the tracks, but also Inputs, Effects returns, auxillary channels, omni assigns. Whatever is assigned to the stereo bus can be recorded.

The two track (LR) recording you will mix and record is done after the actual tracking (recording) of the sources (voice and instrument etc.) You then record the mixed output of the settings (Volume, pan, EQ, Dynamics) you choose for each of the tracks you had recorded. This mixed output is recorded, in real time, during the mixdown recording, to the stereo track.

So, the mix of the stereo bus is recorded to the stereo track. The recorded stereo track can then be used to make an audio CD. i assume the 4416 has a functioning disc burner?

I do believe the 4416 has only one stereo track, so only one mix can be retained ??? You see, the other AW series (G, 1600, 2400) machines have 8 virtual stereo tracks available for each project.

Perhaps I am assuming you know how to set up (instruct) the machine to actually make a recording to the stereo track.

Do you know how to do this step? If so we will go on, but if not I will direct you.

I am going to download the 4416 manual so i can direct you to the proper buttons etc.

_________________
Byron

thanks, i do my best, i love foreign languages i currently speak something like 5 languages some quite good some just a few words it's nice when u can communicate with other people from other countries and or cultures.

Well this mixer has 8 virtual tracks per channel. i have the additional my8-ad24 card so i have 16 inputs in total.

My actual problem is not how to record the stereo track before burning it on cd, yes it has a cd burning device. i already did that some time ago, when i tried to record a song of another bend, then i recorded instrument per instrument and it wasn't working as a PA.
Problem is using it contemporary as a Pa and at the same time recording the bends..without losing the output signal when the recording stops.. this is why i bought this mixer in the first place. because i can use it for PA and recording.. 16 channels is enough for miking almost every bend, and with the scene memory i can use it for multiple bends..
How to set up the input/output signals so that i don't loose them when the recording stops? you said earlier that my setup was probably the reason i had lost my output signal on the monitor out ? now i clicked some buttons read some more but just can't understand how does it work.
I founded that in some screens of the mixer there is some options of setting up pre post fader signal bus blabla something but when i don't understand what is actually happening i'm just scared that i will make things worst.
there is some dithering setting and with all the reading in the world nobody explains what the f..k is the dithering and what is it purpose. and there's a lot of stuff like that. U see that expect that the user of this mixer is already an advanced user apparently ..

Got to agree. I downloaded the manual, and even though i am a seasoned user, it is very difficult to read for understanding. I do get what is going on though.

So, you know how to burn an audio CD. the manual refers to that as Mastering. The newer machine's manuals do not refer to it as such rather simply 'making an audio CD". I will not spend time talking about that.

You obviously know how to route the machine to make a recording. I don't think you will have any luck getting past the problem you encountered, such that it is.

There is an excellent work around though.

Do your setup, and establish your gain settings for all the inputs you will be using. Apply any gates, compressors etc. to the inputs that you may wish to use (this is optional ). when all you set up is done, save a scene (speak up if you are not sure of this aspect) As you make additions/changes during set up, resave the scene.

Now arm the tracks you wish to record, using the bank of buttons provided. When a track is armed to record, it would appear it is connected directly to the input of the same number. (The other AW machines do the input> track assignment a bit differently). When a track is armed to record, the track is sent to the bus. On the 4416 you choose the bus by using the PAN/Routing screen. The track should be assigned to the stereo bus to do what you want.

Save the scene again.

Now you are ready to record your performance, and you have a scene (picture) of all the settings you established.

Before you begin though, create a new song. Import the scene library as you create the new song. this will bring in the scenes from the song you are leaving, into the song you are creating. Now you have a record of your set up in a second song.

On the machines with which i am familiar (1600 2400), a scene will be a snapshot of all your settings EXCEPT the input > Track assignments. These you have to re-establish each time you load a song on which you wish to record. I expect this to be true of your 4416 too.

So during your gig, switch songs at the intermission. Use your scene to recall your setting if need be, but settings do remain when switching songs (Except those assignments to record).

Got to go for dinner now.

Write back and we can continue if you wish.

_________________
Byron

Good appetite man! here is long past dinner time now. 1:13 am
So u think that's the only way?
Preparing as much songs as i think that the bend will play and in the time between songs i just switch to a new song that i already prepared and just recall the scene so i have the same settings on the PA?
that could be a good solution..
If i go instead of the monitor out with the stereo out to the PA do you think that could change anything?
I never used them because it is a phono connector and i don't have that kind of cables.

I had for a short time an aw16g it was a very nice machine finely built but it had just 8 inputs without the possibility of an expansion . So i never played around it..

Not quite as simple as recalling the scene. You will have to manually reset the input> track assignments that you will require each time you reload a new song. so the fewer switches the better during a live gig. don't forget to save every now and again too, as a power interuption will cause a loss of all data.

One good habit is to hit the marker button between each song. Having markers placed really speeds up the editing process.

Have you investigated the stuttering (jumping) of your Hard drive during the last recording?

Stay in touch if you want some further interpretation of the manual. I am very familiar with the AW concepts but would have to read up on the 4416, as it has by far the most elaborate routing patching capabilities of all the AW machines.

Keep your eyes open for a used Y56K card to put in the second slot of your machine. It is a great add on to enhance the processing capability of the machine. Out of production now, but they do crop up on ebay now and again.

Post some music when you get some to work the way you want.

_________________
Byron

No i haven't had the possibility jet to investigate..
But in my opinion only 2 possible reasons that i can think of right now.
1)The mixer was to close to the speaker, because it never did anything similar before.
2)To much inputs at once to record, i never tried with this mixer to record more than 7 channels at the same time (drums).
Possible the buffer was not capable to write down so much data with so much data coming in?
Maybe the mixer have some issues.. Hope not..

what is it for the y56k?

I have recorded multiple tracks on my 2400 many times. I suspect it might be vibration causing the stutter, but ????

The y56k card is a card for Digital Signal Processing (DSP). Out of production. The utilities are from the company WAVS. They are hard ware versions of the software "Gold" bundle. A newer version (Y96K) is also out of production. Great eq, very stable limiter, tranparent compressor, excellent de-esser etc.

Either version will work in the 4416, I believe. They were quite pricey, (hundreds of US$), but used cards will be a lot cheaper, if one becomes available. You sometimes see them included with the sale of a used 4416.

_________________
Byron