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 Post subject: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:18 am 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Machine type: AW16G
From Yamaha.com:

Linking Two AW16Gs

It is possible to link two AW16Gs for a total of 32 tracks of recording. They are synchronized using MTC (MIDI Time Code) and the audio is cascaded from one AW16G into the second one using the digital stereo out.

* Connect the MIDI OUT of the AW16G 'master' to the MIDI IN of the AW16G 'slave' using a MIDI cable.

* Connect the DIGITAL STEREO OUT of the AW16G slave to the DIGITAL STEREO IN of the AW16G 'master' using an optical cable.

* Press the [UTILITY] button on the AW16G 'master' repeatedly, until the 'MIDI' Screen appears.

* Cursor to 'MTC' under ''MIDI OUT'' and press the [ENTER] button. This sets the AW16G 'master' to transmit MTC.

* Press the [UTILITY] button on the AW16G 'slave' until you are at the MIDI Screen.

* Cursor to 'SLAVE' under MTC MODE and press the [ENTER] button. This sets the AW16G 'slave' to sync to incoming MTC.

* Press the [UTILITY] button on the AW16G 'master' until you are at the D.IN-HDD screen.

* Cursor to the box under 'DIGITAL IN PATCH' and turn the [JOG/DATA] Wheel until it displays STEREO BUS. This routes the signal coming from the AW16G 'slave' directly to the stereo mix of the AW16G 'master'.

* Press the [PLAY] button on the AW16G 'slave'. The [PLAY] button should blink indicating that it is waiting for MTC.

* Press the [PLAY] button on the AW16G 'master'. The AW16G 'slave' should now start playing and be synchronized with the master via incoming MTC.

I'm going to try that. I will be buying an extra (used obviously) G tomorrow.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:08 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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So far it works. That is, pressing play, stop, RTZ, jumping to markers etc, whatever the master does, the slave follows.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:37 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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congrats Midi Boy !

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 9:49 am 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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I've risen to midi-ocre. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:16 pm 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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:laughing3:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:59 pm 
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Ranch Hand
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Does this mean you can now record 16 tracks simultaneously and mix 32 tracks?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:59 pm 
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The other man !!!
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:hello1:

I am in awe.


This round of Gouda is on me...





Could you hook up more than 2? (Yes I am MIDI retarded.)

-paints

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:49 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
Machine type: AW16G
I don't think you can hook up more than two. So far, the operating commands are synchronized, but the timing isn't - they each use it's own clock. WAV files will therefore go out of synch, unless I do something wrong.

Yes you can record 16 inputs to 32 tracks. The stereo busses are connected through the optical in- and outputs.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:36 pm 
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Location: 75W 40N and 200 ft ABOVE sea level
Machine type: AW16G
I just may have to start trawling Ebay for a used G.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:56 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Robbie wrote:
WAV files will therefore go out of synch


Yep.........that's the problem I had linking the G and the 4416 together.

No you didn't do anything wrong. You might try playing with the offset parameter if the you have a consistant timing error (which I didn't). Timing was different on every rewind. Welcome to the midi world of latency.

V

msg

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:25 pm 
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City Slicker

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I've just started mixing down some recordings done yesterday by linking two AW16G's together as above.

I've got a problem that is just emerging and that is the pitch and speed of the music seems to change. It's slower (and lower pitched) when i first start the recorders for mixdown and then speeds up during the song. Also if I stop the Slave recorder whilst the master is running as well the pitch lowers on the master as it continues playing????

After about a minute the speed and pitch seems to increase to the normal recorded speed

They are running in sync but obviously if the pitch is changing throughout the song then the material is unusable.

Can anyone please tell me what the problem is and how to correct it?

They are linked by using a midi cable and a digital optical lead.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:38 pm 
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Newbie
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Location: Zurich, Switzerland
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Machine type: AW16G
Hey Paulos

Please don't double-post :wink: .

Your other entry will certainly find readers and get you answers :-)!

Thanks,

Michel

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:43 pm 
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Sorry, I wasn't sure which topic to post hence the reason for two posts

My apologies


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:44 pm 
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Newbie
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Location: Zurich, Switzerland
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paulos wrote:
My apologies


No worries :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:54 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:46 pm
Posts: 5610
Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
Machine type: AW16G
I prefer enthusiasm over melancholy... but most member use the "view posts since last visit" button anyway... :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:41 am 
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Boot Polisher
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:54 am
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Location: Sutton, MA
Favourite food: Jamaican Jerk
Machine type: AW1600
paulos wrote:
I've just started mixing down some recordings done yesterday by linking two AW16G's together as above.

I've got a problem that is just emerging and that is the pitch and speed of the music seems to change. It's slower (and lower pitched) when i first start the recorders for mixdown and then speeds up during the song. Also if I stop the Slave recorder whilst the master is running as well the pitch lowers on the master as it continues playing????

After about a minute the speed and pitch seems to increase to the normal recorded speed

They are running in sync but obviously if the pitch is changing throughout the song then the material is unusable.

Can anyone please tell me what the problem is and how to correct it?

They are linked by using a midi cable and a digital optical lead.


The problem is caused by the digital audio - word clock to be specific. Take the analog out of the second G and run the output into the input of two channels on the first deck. That should solve the problem, that's what I had to do syncing a 1600 & G together. I had the exact same problem and Yamaha said it's the word clocks.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:58 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Location: Godly Taxas
Favourite food: Frog Legs
Machine type: AW4416
Ahhhhhhhhh I wondered about synching without a word clock. Midi always has some latency issues and that was my problem. They would always be "synched" together at different delays each time I restarted. When I set the offset for the corrected amount then it would sync different still.

:scratch:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:15 pm 
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Boot Polisher
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Location: Sutton, MA
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Machine type: AW1600
One thing to keep in mind is that the counters on the two machines will never agree. Just set the 2nd deck to MMC and MTC slave and make the first deck the master. The reason the 2nd deck will go out of tune is because when the word clock becomes unstable, it will try to compensate and will vary in pitch as a result. The implementation of the word clocks is not very good - this from the Yamaha support tech.

MTC works great, so as long as you use an analog audio connection from the 2nd deck to the first, you eliminate the issue with the word clock. I've had zero sync issues this way. The other thing is that MTC is chase and lock, so it takes a second or two for the 2nd deck to lock in to the MTC and start playing. I keep the stuff I'm unlikely to have to punch on the 2nd deck and use the first deck for the most critical stuff. You can autopunch easily on the first deck, but not the 2nd - I usually do a manual punch on the 2nd deck if I need to punch a track.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:36 pm 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Location: Godly Taxas
Favourite food: Frog Legs
Machine type: AW4416
LarryV wrote:
I keep the stuff I'm unlikely to have to punch on the 2nd deck and use the first deck for the most critical stuff. You can autopunch easily on the first deck, but not the 2nd - I usually do a manual punch on the 2nd deck if I need to punch a track.




Hmmmmmmm got to thinking Larry V's post................ :?:

Why not y-cord a footswitch to control the two recorders? I did and low and and behold ! After 3 minutes of running the clocks were only 9ms. apart.

This is how I'm gonna link from now on.

Parts list :

One 1/4 Mono Y-Cord (One mono male to two female mono)

One 1/4 Female/Female adapter (to adapt the male single end to a female end to plug the footswitch output in.)

Two 1/4 TS (mono) patch cords (To connect the "Y" outputs to the footswitch inputs of the linked recorders )

Run the Digital cable setup like you WERE synching via midi and not only is the word clock issue bypassed but the clock mismatch will always be in the 10ms or less area and yer still in the digital realm. Easily delt with on the G or 1600 by editing or on the 4416 , simply use the delay screen to set the ST delay to match the error between the units. This method works every time , predictable, and will allow linking of ANY of the Yamaha recorders to one or the other.

I haven't actually tested it yet but the auto-punch feature sould allow near perfect record syncs as well !


Happy linking !

MSG

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:59 pm 
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Boot Polisher
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:54 am
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Location: Sutton, MA
Favourite food: Jamaican Jerk
Machine type: AW1600
I suppose that would work, but the decks aren't really synchronized time wise like they are with MTC. MTC works fine, it's the word clocks that become problematic and they're only used to clock the audio. The Yamaha rep told me that their implementation of the word clocks wasn't really very robust.

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