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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:29 pm 
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Boot Polisher
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Yes I did that. Without them being linked, I pressed rec&play on both machines simultaneously. My left hand turned out to be 3 ms faster than my right hand! :lol:

It was quite easy to transfer 8 tracks from one machine to the other having 16 tracks together. The transferred tracks needed to be checked for timing, but that was easy too because I recorded one signal (snare drum - high definition, timewise) on both machines.


i think..if you make two outings to pedal(yamaha fc5) you get simultaneously play-rec in the two Gs


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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:35 pm 
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Great topic!
Is linking these 2 (G) machines together a good application if you just want mondo tracks so as not to be making crucial decisions with submixes too early on in case there is no band and just a bunch of overdubbing?

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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:55 pm 
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I have linked my 1600 and my 2400 on several occasions to increase the track count. Particularly if you are working in 24 bit, this can be quite advantageous. I have not experienced major latency issues. Give it a go if you have two machines with which to experiment..

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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:11 am 
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sounds fun, Byron...maybe this tax season? 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:31 am 
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HamelnStock Survivor and Midi Guru
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I recently linked and synched two AW16G's without a problem so far although Robbie remembers having problems. In another thread i have explained how i did it ...

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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:51 pm 
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HamelnStock Survivor and Midi Guru
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at wrote:
i think..if you make two outings to pedal(yamaha fc5) you get simultaneously play-rec in the two Gs


Correct but even G's run out of synch after some time. It's better to link them with two midi cables so they can correct one another. My test went smoothly.

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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:38 am 
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Deleted the Demo - that's a good thing!

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Hey Fordirk......Could you stick a link to the way you linked the 2 g's please


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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:36 pm 
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HamelnStock Survivor and Midi Guru
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Image

I just responded on Robbies thread about the subject. But i checked. You have to press utillity untill MIDI is highlighted (under the utility sidebar). Then on the master under midi out and set MTC (midi time code) on (it turns black). Leave MMC and MTC mode to master. Do the same thing on the slave but set the modes to slave.

Connect Both G's with TWO midi cables to each other. Remember that midi in on the master goes to midi out on the slave and vice versa. Now start the master and the slave will follow. if you fast forward or reverse it will follow too. You have to put the slave in recording mode and arm tracks if you want it to record anything.

Hope this helps and please give me feedback on your results. Both good and bad news !

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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:50 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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I'm glad that at least one of us has "the big picture". :)

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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:13 pm 
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Deleted the Demo - that's a good thing!

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Brilliant!
No optical cables just midi cables???
Cool I'll try at the weekend and let you know the results.
That's a massive picture


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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:14 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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You'll need an optical cable if you want to connect the stereo busses of the machines.

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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:43 pm 
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HamelnStock Survivor and Midi Guru
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Yep it's a big picture. It's not very sharp though. 1/4 second. I knew it wouldn't be crispy ...

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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:21 am 
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Deleted the Demo - that's a good thing!

Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:10 pm
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Machine type: AW16G
Is this working for you every time Ford? Latency? If the recordig runs off (I'll only be using this for recording) Is there no way to salvage it. Even "warp" in Ableton can't repair tracks running off in latency.


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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:50 am 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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I had one source (snare drum) record on both machines, which were unsynched. I used it to line it up. I had two sets of 8 tracks obviously and one set runned off relative to the other. A few cuts (miliseconds) here and there solved the problem. I took me about half an hour to line up a 55 minute recording.

I started by looking how much time there was between the recording starts of the machines (first hit of the snare drum). That turned out to be 3 millisecond (I either have a steady hand, or I got lucky - let's assume it was the latter). So I cut that away. Then, I listened every minute or so. After a few minutes the difference was about 3 ms, time to cut that away to re-align the sets. I had to do that only about 3 or 4 times to get the sets ligned up within a 3 ms range.

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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:36 pm 
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The digital in outs can be connected with a standard RCA patch cord. got this advice from Geno some time ago and have used this ever since.

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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:05 am 
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Robbie wrote:
From Yamaha.com:

Linking Two AW16Gs

It is possible to link two AW16Gs for a total of 32 tracks of recording. They are synchronized using MTC (MIDI Time Code) and the audio is cascaded from one AW16G into the second one using the digital stereo out.

* Connect the MIDI OUT of the AW16G 'master' to the MIDI IN of the AW16G 'slave' using a MIDI cable.

* Connect the DIGITAL STEREO OUT of the AW16G slave to the DIGITAL STEREO IN of the AW16G 'master' using an optical cable.

* Press the [UTILITY] button on the AW16G 'master' repeatedly, until the 'MIDI' Screen appears.

* Cursor to 'MTC' under ''MIDI OUT'' and press the [ENTER] button. This sets the AW16G 'master' to transmit MTC.

* Press the [UTILITY] button on the AW16G 'slave' until you are at the MIDI Screen.

* Cursor to 'SLAVE' under MTC MODE and press the [ENTER] button. This sets the AW16G 'slave' to sync to incoming MTC.

* Press the [UTILITY] button on the AW16G 'master' until you are at the D.IN-HDD screen.

* Cursor to the box under 'DIGITAL IN PATCH' and turn the [JOG/DATA] Wheel until it displays STEREO BUS. This routes the signal coming from the AW16G 'slave' directly to the stereo mix of the AW16G 'master'.

* Press the [PLAY] button on the AW16G 'slave'. The [PLAY] button should blink indicating that it is waiting for MTC.

* Press the [PLAY] button on the AW16G 'master'. The AW16G 'slave' should now start playing and be synchronized with the master via incoming MTC.

I'm going to try that. I will be buying an extra (used obviously) G tomorrow.


I don't have 2 G's, but before I buy second one I'd really like to know if 100% (sample to sample) sync between machines is possible or not? I tried sync to PC and it is working.
From my experience, MIDI alone will never give U 100% sync with dig audio, it has to be via SPDIF too. I know there's no wordclock ins/outs on smaller machines, but some clocking is always standard sent via SPDIF. And it is needed, because not all machines sampling clocks are 44100Hz accurate (one can be 44050, other 44101.... calculate what the difference can be in 20min recording...).
Now, what is bothering me in the first post (is it really from Yamaha.com site??), there's confusion between MIDI (MTC) master and Digital Audio master. When U enable Digital Input Patch and Digital Rec ON, this machine becomes DIG Audio SLAVE, and NOT master like written :!: Of course MIDI sync is needed for Start, Stop..etc... but you need sync via SPDIF too.
So, if anyone with 2 G/1600 machines can try some new setups and give me a final answer, I would be glad :)


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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:10 am 
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Byron wrote:
The digital in outs can be connected with a standard RCA patch cord. got this advice from Geno some time ago and have used this ever since.

Yes for short lenghts they're ok, but for longer distances standard 75ohm (video) cable should be used.


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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:15 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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I have two G's, I got it working in the studio, but I don't think it was sample to sample synchronisation. However, as you say, 44100 Hz may be 44095 on one and 44105 on the other... I think the difference is much smaller. The total difference was in the neighbourhood of 20 ms in a one hour recording. That is enough to notice, so a nip and tuck are in order. But it is not a totally onworkable difference.

I didn't get it to work in Krimson's rehearsal room where we made a 16 track recording. One machine was most definitely influency the speed of the other as playing back resulted in a sound that was much like an analogue tape at a speed that was far from constant. As if someone was blocking the reel with his fingers. So, one way or the other, a real time synchronisation of the recording (as opposed to operator actions like play and stop) is possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:49 pm 
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HamelnStock Survivor and Midi Guru
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I have two g's and had each one record the others click track. I did not hear the clicks getting out of synch. I most admit i did not let it run for 20 min's as i don't usually record songs that long. It was only 5 or so but should have heard latency problems. I can do it again if you really need to know...

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 Post subject: Re: Linking two G's
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:24 pm 
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Tinhorn

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Well, maybe I was exageratting :D with +-44.1khz numbers, just wanted to say why both machines digital audio clock should be "locked together".
Robbie and Fordirk, your sync seem ok and few miliseconds (sometimes even 20) shouldn't be too problematic, but this is only MIDI sync, like you would sync analog tape recorder in old days. Tape machines had wow-flutter (speed) problem, so MIDI time code (or SMPTE) had to catch sync every few seconds.
This problems are past now, today it's just two different sampling speeds. Now, when there is SPDIF on both machines, it can send audio AND (poor) wordclock with same cable, one master, other slave.
As I said I tried this with PC, sent several audio tracks (2 at a time) from PC to G via SPDIF (+ MIDI sync) and then also back to PC and checked if they are 100% aligned. They were like "locked together" with old ones, no milisecond problem at all, sample to sample.
That's where my question comes from: Why wouldn't this work also for two G's? Few ms difference can sometimes make phase problems, why not prevent this. I'd like to know if G has a "sync bug" or nobody's done this right? :-k


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