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 Post subject: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:29 pm 
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Boot Polisher

Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:35 pm
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Machine type: AW16G
Hi all
I'm having a bit of a nightmare trying to get two effects on a track. I somehow managed to get the reverb working (showing as TR21) but I can't get effects 1 working on the same track. It's showing as (Send) but I can't work out how to get it to show as track 21 the same as the other effect. I can get one to work at a time but not both! It's driving me nuts!!!

Any help would be great

Cheers

Les


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 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:08 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Machine type: AW2400
You are not able to insert more than one effect in a single track. no way no how.

But it sounds as if you are not solid in your understanding of how the effects can be utilized. Two ways.

The first, but least used I'd guess, is the INSERT method. You have done that I see from your post. In this method You need pay attention to the parameter within the EFF EDIT pages. Look for the mix balance parameter and dial down from 100%. Rare would be the time to utilize 100% within the signal chain of a single track. 20% or much less is often sufficient IMO. If that parameter is not there then use the cursors to scroll through the Edit pages. Some EFF have but one page of parameters, Many EFF have 2 or 3 pages of parameters to tweak. The mix balance is at the bottom of the pages , if i recall correctly.

The second way to utilize an EFF is the SEND-RETURN method. In the EFF send page you dial up how much of the track signal you will SEND to the EFF Bus. On this bus it will be combined with signal you dial up for other tracks, if wanted, the signal from this bus is RETURNed to the Stereo bus where it can be mixed with other signals arriving there. ( from tracks and inputs )

In your case you could insert one EFF into your track and send that tracks signal to the Send of EFF 2 and utilize this path.

Alternately you could use the Send Return of both EFF to doctor your track. You will want to pay attention to whether it is best to use Pre or Post fader assignment. starting with post fader, I'd guess. there are advantages to Pre fader but i'd leave that for a further discussion.

Lastly, as I recall there is some aspect of the G and the 1600 that allows the user to assign the order of the EFF in the final signal chain. That too is at the bottom of the EDIT pages if i am recalling. I'll look on my 1600 later and let you know if anything jumps out. Been some years since I mixed on that machine.

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:40 pm 
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Boot Polisher

Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:35 pm
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Cheers Byron, you are always the man to goto in a crisis!
On the G you could assign 2 effects to a track. Can't believe you can't do it on this machine!!!
There is a rev\del effect combined so I might go for that.
Yes in my (limited) experience 15% is the max mix of any effect you might need.

It's just doing some vocals that I always trip up on. No matter what I do they always sound very distant...

Cheers

Lex


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 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:33 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Machine type: AW2400
Had a slip up there , forgetting you are a 2400 user now ??? right??

Still the same answer though, there is only one slot into which can be inserted an EFF.

But the rest of my message is pertinent to the 2400. If you want to Effect a track with multiple processors, send signal to two effects and mix the output from the returns of the two.

On the 2400 there are two insert points on inputs one and two. You could send signal out to an external EFF and then send that on through the chain, in which you can have a second EFF inserted. If your track is already recorded this could be accomplished by sending the signal out an AUX to an input and there utilize the insert point to go through an outboard EFF before continuing through the chain's insert of an onboard EFF.

Do what you will utilizing all the tools available and when satisfied mix down just those track (s) to a stereo mix. then copy that 2 track back to a pair and utilize this "stem" in the mix as it develops. sometimes it helps to make such a commitment to a printed stem, committing you to a direction that enables you to launch ahead to other aspects.

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:49 pm 
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Boot Polisher

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Thanks again Byron..
Think I'm getting used to this machine a bit more now
Cheers
Les


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 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:07 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Machine type: AW2400
RESROCKS wrote:
On the G you could assign 2 effects to a track. Can't believe you can't do it on this machine!!!


It's just doing some vocals that I always trip up on. No matter what I do they always sound very distant...

Cheers

Lex


Hate to burst your bubble, but you can't insert two EFF into a single channel on the G. Had to look at the manual to be sure, but that is indeed the case.

as for your vocal sounding distant, could you elaborate? There are some definite steps you can take to deal with such. Particularly on the 2400. I could elaborate if you want.

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:06 am 
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Boot Polisher

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How did I manage to do that then???
The mind boggles...
Always have trouble recording vocals. Get the levels right but on playback they sound like I'm in the next room with the door closed!
Cheers
Les


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 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:22 am 
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Machine type: AW2400
The 2400 has a feature that, for me, is very useful. that is -- the capacity to add digital gain (up to +12 dB) at the front of the chain on all inputs and tracks.

This is occasionally useful to bolster an input on the way in if the pre is not quite doing it for you. but that type of use is secondary to the ability to add gain and to cut gain on all your recorded tracks going into the mix, in order to get the faders all working around the 0 dB mark.

in this environment you have much greater control to balance the mix and this often helps deal with the vocal problem of which you speak.

there are other ways to bolster a vocal using compression and EQ, and then situation-ally - reverb/delays, doubling, chorusing, pitch correction etc.

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:21 pm 
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I don't think you ever "inserted" two effects. When you insert it means a permanent effect recorded onto a track. You can send signals to a track, but they won't be permanent. So, you can send different amounts of an effect to each track that you want that effect used on. They'll be permanent when you do a mixdown to stereo track.

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:50 pm 
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Boot Polisher

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Cheers again Byron. Have been playing around with compression and it 's definitely helped.

Hi RZ I think you might be right...this recording lark can get very confusion!

Cheers

Lex


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 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:27 am 
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On the EQ side, try High Pass Filtering (available in the Lo slot of the 4 band EQ) using a number between 180 and 240. This takes out/lessens the portion of the vocal that may be competing with an acoustic guitar or the bass or kick. the number you choose will be to your taste.

In the second slot (Lo-Mid) try a narrow (Q = 10), aggressive notch (cut) around 630 htz. It might be -3 to -6 db. To find the appropriate number for the vocal you are working, first do a exploratory sweep, by using Q =10 and + 18dB gain, then use the jog wheel to sweep slowly between 500 and 1000 htz. Where ever it sounds "worst" - that is the number at which you apply the cut. With that done add a very low Q (1.0 or less) gain boost of only 1 or 1.5 dB around 2000 htz or somewhat above.

If you are using a reverb, it sometimes helps to increase the ER parameters, if available. ER = Early Reflections.

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Boot Polisher

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OK so this effects thing is driving me nuts! Cannot get an effect by using the send function. Followed instructions to the letter and nothing... The only way I can hear an effect is to assign it to a track. Otherwise nothing!!!
Is there some spurious setting somewhere that's stopping the effects being sent?

Cheers

Les


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 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:10 am 
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So . . . just our of curiosity, have you pressed the input button for 9-16 and raised the last 4 faders? Those control the 4 effects.

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Good call Ron. I would add , to make sure they are active. ie. their light is on. the last four faders on the 1-8 input layer also control the same effects.

You need also check the Master layer. the last four faders control the Send for each of the EFF. When you are dialing up on the EFF Send page for the individual tracks, it is actually going to the Bus controlled by those last four master faders. This controls how much of the dialed up amounts actually get sent to the EFF. The faders Ron spoke of ( on the Input Layers) control what is coming out of the EFF and routes this to the stereo bus for mixing. Take note that the EFF send faders in the master section have home position at the very top of the fader slide, while the Returns have a home position of 0 dB, which allows some extra gain headroom. Drawing down an EFF Send Master is quite quickly noticeable, but useful if utilized purposefully and carefully during a mix.

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 Post subject: Re: HELP!!!!!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:25 am 
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Boot Polisher

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Hi both

Yes thanks for all the help. Been away for a few days but will be back on it tomorrow!

Cheers

Les


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