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 Post subject: Syncing with cubase
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:20 pm 
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Lone Star

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:39 pm
Posts: 3
Machine type: AW1600
Hi all

New to this forum and I need some help. Have been scanning the posts but
cant seam to find the answer.

I managed to find an aw16g and an aw1600 very cheap that I bought.
I already have a Presonus Studiolive 16.4.2 that I use to record into Cubase
on a Macbook pro. This gives me 16 tracks.
The idea was to link all this together so that I can record 32 tracks in one go.
I cant seam to be able to synchronize them all together. The studiolive uses firewire
for everything.
I was hoping that somebody could give me an idiots approach on how to do this.
That is if it can be done at all.
Many thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Syncing with cubase
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:06 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3481
Machine type: AW2400
I'm not a midi guy really, but i have used two aws linked. Some one will come along and set the record straight if I am way off, but I'll start by saying I don't think you will get 32 tracks.

If the Presonus is the master and one of the aws is the slave, the AWs transport (start/stop etc) will be controlled by the Presonus. So you will be able to get both machines into record mode.

Once recording begins you will be able to record 8 tracks on the AW. What you will be able to get on to the Mac, via the presonus will depend on how you want to maintain individual control of the tracks on the AW. The tracks have to get to the mixing platform and they come out of the G as a two track. This can be done digitally or out analogue and into the Presonus via inputs. In either case you will have to assign two inputs on the Presonus to accept the signal. So you are down to 14 tracks on the Presonus.

Like wise, if you are successful daisy chaining the third machine, its 2 track signal has to find its way to the presonus. so same situation. two inputs on either the presonus or on the first AW have to be assigned to get the signal from that third machine into the cascade.

When you send those signals from the two slaves you could record those immediately to the Mac, if you choose to do that. Then at mixing time they would be on the Mac, but they would be a group and not able to be controlled individually.

More probably you may want only to monitor those signal, through the master Presonus, during the tracking. They are being recorded on the AW, you'll recall. Then at mixing time you mix the tracks that are recorded on the Mac with input from the presonus. Those inputs will be fed by the AWs. You will have to confirm that your platform allows the mixing of "live" inputs with prerecorded tracks. The AW can do this, but i have no experience with your Presonus/Mac gear so ???

I am not sure how latency, if any, is dealt with. Does the Presonus have any digital ways in, besides the firewire. Optical or coax?

Three machines means you are dealing with three hard drives, tripling chances of hardware issue, however remote. Also all the machines will need to be on the desk during tracking and mixing.

For what do you need 32 track, all at once?

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 Post subject: Re: Syncing with cubase
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:42 am 
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Tinhorn

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:50 am
Posts: 317
Favourite food: overmuramovingcake
Byron wrote:
For what do you need 32 track, all at once?

I'm curious, too.
I mean, if you plan to record 32 sources/musicians at the same time, do you realise how many beers will you spend in times when things will go out of sync...? :D

Now seriously, as mentioned this could work, but there are potential problems. I'll add some.
There is MIDI sync and there is audio sync. 1 master, 2 slaves.
For MIDI, I'm not sure if you have separate MIDI IN/OUT from Mac/Cubase, because Presonus doesn't have one.

For Audio, I see only one coax SPDIF out from Presonus. This means it could only work as wordclock master. And you will still have problem with splitting this signal between 2 AW's, as one has coax and other optical. When you solve this (with another box perhaps), then you will still have problems Byron mentioned...

Did you try single AW synced with Cubase? Here's similar example that worked (Sonar, no Cubase):
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=14152&p=152981&hilit=sync+sequencer#p152981


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 Post subject: Re: Syncing with cubase
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:19 am 
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Marker Magician
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3481
Machine type: AW2400
with 32 tracks you would have lots of options to record a stage/dance band. but three recorders and a computer is a lot of gear to haul around.

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 Post subject: Re: Syncing with cubase
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:25 am 
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Greenhorn
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:44 pm
Posts: 185
Location: Scotland
Favourite food: Hot and Fatty
Machine type: AW16G
I use 2 AW16g's and cubase. 1 of the g's is the master and it's via standard midi. In the manual it tells you about using the the control surface for faders etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Syncing with cubase
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:27 pm 
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Lone Star

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:39 pm
Posts: 3
Machine type: AW1600
Hi Guys
Just an experiment at the moment because of the prices I got the AW's for.
Have only tried the 1600 with the Presonus. With the Cubase as the master (as I think this is the
only way to do it dont know really) managed to get them both recording the presonus to the mac
and the 1600 to itself trouble is I turned everything off without saving any of the settings that I
had. Im guessing they can all be saved on the 1600 I dont know them very well which brings me to this forum. The presonus is set up and working ok Im getting confused with the usb connection and the midi connections to the 1600. This is what Im hoping to sort out. If it can be sorted out at all.
Another thing I dont really know is if after transfering all the wave files to the mac that they will all line up in length etc. I think they should as everything would be synched together.
Anyway I play in a rather large band that I would like to record in one session getting
everything on seperate tracks so that I can mix and master at home.
Any help that anybody can give me will be much appreciated.
As I said one big experiment at the moment.

Many thanks
Rod


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 Post subject: Re: Syncing with cubase
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:07 pm 
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Tinhorn

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:50 am
Posts: 317
Favourite food: overmuramovingcake
Hi Rod,
1st, forget USB (nothing to do with sync) and use only MIDI connections.
As already mentioned, MIDI sync is the simplest way and can work with 3 machines (1 master, 2 slaves).

BUT - you are asking about if waves will line up in lenght:
YES, if you record each (short) song separately (well, there will be few ms difference, but you shouldn't notice this).
NO - if you are planning much longer session recordings, delay could be seconds, depends on different clocks in machines. So, this is why I suggested also AUDIO clock (wordclock master) sync, and why you'll need some kind of splitter here (Behringer box perhaps).

I'd keep it simple at first (2 machines with MIDI sync) and start with short songs. You will add later if it goes well.


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 Post subject: Re: Syncing with cubase
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:06 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3481
Machine type: AW2400
I have done several projects that were recorded on two machines. The first was even before I new anything about the digital out and cascade procedures. I knew nothing about a midi link, so i was starting the machine as close to simultaneously as I could. I probably transferred the 1600's files to the larger 2400 for mixing ???? It is quite possible to mix using both machines hooked via mid and digital out/in, I have since learned, and occasionally have utilized.

In what sort of large band do you play? Great mixes can be made utilizing a stereo array to record a stage perfomance in a good room ( I use Mid-Side, but an XY would work too) and combining that with strategically placed spot mics and direct feed from a vocal mic and a few instruments, keys bass, kick drum etc. ( you can steal these from the PA board, form the insert/direct out jack)

At mixing time, I insert a few ms at the top of the file for the closely mic'ed/direct stuff, to get them behind (after) the stereo array. The number of ms you use will depend on the distance of the stereo mic from the stage. The stereo signal on its own will sound "true" but thin and obviously from a room. The spot mics and direct feeds augment. Massage these with some EQ and compression. get the levels sounding good together. Then to the stereo bus, apply EQ (HPF to control room rumble and then wide very moderate cuts/adds as needed) , some gentle compression and perhaps a reverb wash and you can perhaps get a mix with which you will be satisfied.

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 Post subject: Re: Syncing with cubase
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:20 pm 
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Lone Star

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:39 pm
Posts: 3
Machine type: AW1600
Hi
Have never heard of word clock but checked the presonus manual and
it will work with word clock as long as it is the master.
Dont know if this helps.
To tell you the truth I thought the master sent out a synchronous signal
throughout the recording for the slaves to sync to. Didnt know it just
started the internal clock of the slave.
Learning already not too bad eh.
Hope I havent got you all scratching your heads now.
Can you give me some links to some reading or better still videos
that may be good for a dumbo like me?

Many thanks

Rod


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 Post subject: Re: Syncing with cubase
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:57 pm 
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Tinhorn

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:50 am
Posts: 317
Favourite food: overmuramovingcake
rod75280 wrote:
Hi
Have never heard of word clock but checked the presonus manual and
it will work with word clock as long as it is the master.

Yes this is because it only has digital output, no inputs.


rod75280 wrote:
To tell you the truth I thought the master sent out a synchronous signal
throughout the recording for the slaves to sync to. Didnt know it just
started the internal clock of the slave.

You were right, but it depends how complex sync system is (Midi Clock, SPP, FSK, MTC, SMPTE...) the latest was pro standard in tape recording for several years. In AW's use MTC. It's more than just a start.

Now, audio wordclock has completely different function. Master wordclock machine is sending dig signal to slave machines, so they can sample at the same sampling rate (44.1KHz for AW's) with bit to bit accuracy.

https://www.sweetwater.com/forums/showt ... Word-Clock


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