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 Post subject: Theory Clarification?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:53 am 
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Tinhorn
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So i'm a little confused here, and the answer is probably under my nose, but could some people explain this to me...


for example

lets take the D major scale for example. D, E, F♯, G, A, B, and C♯

If i were to play a Dmaj chord using the formula it'd be 1 - 3 - 5

ie: D - F♯ - A forming the D major chord.

Now here is where i get completely lost... in order to find what notes are in the chord i simply just COUNT from D up 3 and then 5 to get my D major using the 1 - 3 - 5 formula.

But for a chord such as the D9 how would i find the 9th note? If there's only 7 notes in the scale :oops: (this may be a really stupid question i know... but its always confused me...) #-o

This also goes for 11th, 13th and all the higher number chords.. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:14 am 
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Tinhorn
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Ok, perhaps i figured it out on my own?!

So lets say I want the Cmaj11 chord.


I'll take the C major scale and its notes which are C, D, E, F, G, A, and B.

then i'll take the formula for the maj 11th chord.

which is: 1 - 3 - 5 - 7 - (9) - 11

and i'll count 1 (C) up from C three is E, then 5 is G, 7 is B and then I go back to C and count up 9 which lands me on D, then i count up 11 from C which ends me on F?

is this the logic behind the "chord formulas"?

If so, i knew the answer was infront of me.. :oops: :roll: If not, then i just made myself look like a bafoon :mrgreen: =P~ :^o


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:05 pm 
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HamelnStock Survivor and Midi Guru
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As you said, it is right under your nose.

Just take the scale

D, E, F♯, G, A, B, C♯ and continue counting or repeat if you will

D, E, F♯, G, A, B, C♯, D, E, F♯, G, A, B, C♯

So for a seventh you add C#, for a Ninth you add E and for Eleventh you add G. In order to hit them on the keyboard you may just as well push the first E or G when that is easier. Read the first post about this which i have clarified. It says you can turn the notes around. The order in which they are is not important for the chord which you form. It's the notes that you press so change them around for convenience !

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:09 am 
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Tinhorn
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Thanks for clearing that up, makes sense now to me.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:35 am 
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I may have just learned something.....after all I AM a dumb drummer! :oops: I have always done everything by ear on the keyboard for my electronica musics......usually in the key of E or C...the 2 I know best! :oops: The only thing I REALLY know is the scale from whatever route note: whole-whole-half-whole-whole-whole-half... i think.. :dontknow:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:38 am 
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and then there's majors and minors. THAT I have no idea about. My brain hears the notes, but I've never understood why it's major or minor... something about a half step up or down somewhere? :?:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:39 am 
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If I think about it too much I lose the phrase I'm going for. I suck. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:23 pm 
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The only difference between a major and minor scale is the third is flattened on the minor

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:58 pm 
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HamelnStock Survivor and Midi Guru
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D Major = D - F# - A
D Minor = D - F - A

So for D Minor the third is lowered by half a tone

C Major = C - E - F
C Minor = C - D# - F

So for C Minor the third is lowered by half a tone but in this case the third becomes a sharp note

Does flattening have a definition ?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:48 am 
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Footswitch Genius
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Quote:
So for C Minor the third is lowered by half a tone but in this case the third becomes a sharp note

if it makes you feel any better you can call it Eb instead of D#

but the note-naming is not really relevant in this case, which is why you'll often see chord shifts and intervals described using Roman Numerals instead of properly named chromatic notes and keys - because it is the intervals between the notes you play that are important. a flattened third is always a minor third, no matter the name of the note it becomes.

for an opposite example, take F#m. notes are F#, A, and C#. if i sharpen the third (A) one semitone to make it an F# major, the third (A) becomes Bb but it is still very much a major chord: it has a 4-semitone interval between the fundamental and the third, instead of the 3-semitones of the minor shape. that holds true no matter where on the keyboard you play that chord-shape.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:49 pm 
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To make a D9, doesn't the 7th have to be included as well? An 11th..the 9th and 7th... I think those tonalities have to be in there somewhere. Not sure though... Steely Dan uses alot of these if anyone is interested in hearing them...

Keep in mind that you can leave the root out and cover it in the bass... try this on your keyboards...

Play Em7 with your right hand... E G B D
Play E in the bass.... E EGBD = Em7

Play a bunch of other shit to clear your mind...
Play Em7 with your right hand..
Play C in the bass.. C EGBD = C9

Try C in the left hand... CDG in the right hand...I believe this would be considered a C2.
I like this inversion alot and you'll hear it on lots of my songs, jazzy and texturally interesting.
All these chords...same notes...very different from each other.

I don't know if my theory is correct, but this little lesson opened my eyes some years ago...



-= Beer

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