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 Post subject: mic pre-amp or better EQ
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:45 pm 
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City Slicker
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good evening all, the stuff i record is mainly acoustic guitar and vocals ( elliott smith, nick drake type stuff ), the microphone i'm using isn't fantastic but i think it's alright, it's a gatt ld5 condenser, but my problem is electrical hiss, i need to turn the gain up quite high to get a decent signal level but the hiss is un-ignorable, should i be using a seperate mic pre-amp to increase the level and then turn the gain down, or is there another way of doing this inside the 16g, i would be eternaly greatful for your advice
Luna


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 Post subject: Oh yeah!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:43 am 
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Mic pre my man. oh and welcome. 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:25 am 
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Location: Where the big toe goes... the foot will follow...
If you're getting hiss, it's probably 1 of the following:

1) Ambient room noise.
2) Signal to noise ratio.

The way to solve this is by examining your signal.

First off, set your mic at a 45 degree angle to your soundboard about 6-10 inches away. The angle should be towards the fretboard.

Go to your view and look at your PFL (Pre) view.

When you play, at your loudest, you want it to be just above -6db. (For dynamics)

This means that you are getting a good signal when you record. If you aren't there on your PFL view, then you're trying to add volume when nothing is there and you get noise.

High signal, low noise is the target.

If this doesn't work for you, then listen to the noise carefully, it could be picking up some ambient noise in the room. Is there a compute nearby? Or a fan? Is the mic mounted on the same table as the recorder? (Hard disk noise)

Just some things to consider.

Cin

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:31 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Like the old Coyote said ......the G pre's suck moosewang. get a decent pre and enjoy your G.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:00 am 
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well room ambience definately isn't the problem, it's soooo quiet in there, but also, i unplugged the mic and turned the gain up and the exact same hiss was there, could the machine need earthing or something, any thoughts?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:04 am 
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Mr. Electonica Dude
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Mine start getting noisy above about 12 o-clock , horrible above 2 0-clock.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:33 am 
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Roper
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CindaP wrote:
If you're getting hiss, it's probably 1 of the following:

1) Ambient room noise.

Highly unlikely. Most rooms exhibit problems within mid to low end frequencies.

CindaP wrote:
2) Signal to noise ratio.

This may possibly be the problem as a result of a few circumstances, the first being that the G's pre can become inherently noisy beyond a certain setting, second reason being that the setting point of the G's preamps can also be influenced by the self noise of the mic that is being used, and the third reason being...poorly shielded cables or signal lines running parallel to power lines.

Just thinking out loud.....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:40 am 
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Location: Where the big toe goes... the foot will follow...
I dunno... Once we were recording in a house and had a hiss that we couldn't resolve for the life of us.

It turned out to be that he ran the fan for his air conditioner at all times and we were picking up the air from the vent.

Weird sounds occur in home studios and sometimes you just have to think outside the box.

But then... I'm just this girl... ya know?

Cin

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:46 am 
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CindaP wrote:
I dunno... Once we were recording in a house and had a hiss that we couldn't resolve for the life of us.

It turned out to be that he ran the fan for his air conditioner at all times and we were picking up the air from the vent.

Weird sounds occur in home studios and sometimes you just have to think outside the box.

But then... I'm just this girl... ya know?

Cin

OK.

But you didn't mention the air conditioner fan earlier. :wink:

I failed at Mindreading 101.

Those florodecadent lights can raise hell too. They make everything sound......green. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:07 am 
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Quote:
Think outside the box..

Wrong. The room you record in is a box. It has width, length, and a height dimension, all of which factor into the dB level of various frequencies. And I'm only mentioning room dimensions here. Ooooh. Wall, floor, ceiling construction, windows, yadayadayada also influence the room.

Sorry Cinda,

I'm just a guy that has learned enough about acoustics to know that I still have much to learn. It's a science ya know?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:12 am 
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Lunacy, before you go running around looking for room goblins, get yourself a decent preamp. Everyone agrees the G's preamps suck. What does that mean? They are noisy. Once you crank them up, they are awful. A preamp doesn't need to be that expensive, and you'll have improved the sound (especially if it is a tube pre) and eliminated a source of noise, that being the G preamp.

You characterize the noise as electronic, and it seems that it is constant and not periodic. No room is going to give you electronic noise...that is, white noise. It's in the signal chain. I'm not familiar with a Gatt (maybe it's the mic), but in problems like these you need to eliminate and isolate. The G's pre's are universally known to be a problem in this regard. Eliminate them from the equation.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:06 pm 
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has anyone heard of the behringer shark DSP110 preamp , sounds like it would do what i want but i can't find any reviews of it


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:08 pm 
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It's lunacy I tell ya. :shock: :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:31 pm 
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I have 4 sharks, and they are not preamps per se but primarily feedback destroyers. However, they have a built-in preamp and phantom power, of which I use them for neither.

You have to be careful using them. Left to be free on their own, they will kill your vocals if you have a full band behind you.

In short, they work to a point...but feedback can get through them anyway.

As for preamp, I use a tube preamp in front of them and set the Sharks' preamps to zero.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:04 pm 
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Welcome to the forum, lunacy. I agree that in your case a preamp is what's needed, because you're just pushing the G's preamp into the noise zone.

Gotta agree with Cin though, hiss can come from the strangest places. I once had trouble tracking down a hiss, only to find the toilet at the other end of the house was running. :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:22 pm 
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Oh man its always something. the hum of some random electrical source, crossed cables can sometimes create noise, but it is true that the G pres suck real bad like.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:50 am 
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Hey, Lun. No one can argue with a straight face that a pre-amp won't help, but I may be a lone voice in saying that I've been pretty satisfied with the G's pres. (No attacks gang, please.) I'm using decent $100 mics (Studio Project B1) and have been really surprised by how clean my acoustic guitar tracks are. No noticeable background noise and a good, clear sound. I mention this only because a new mic, rather than a pre, could be another option for you.

I'll be adding an M-Audio DMP3 (great pre-amp for $100+) to my rig at some point in the future, though, so maybe then my opinion will change and I'll have to come back and delete this post.

Best,
J.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:26 am 
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I had the same issues recording guitar, I bought a Yamaha MG10/2 mixer to use mainly for pre-amp duties. The sound is superb and for a really great price (£60), you get a mixer thrown in as well. Using the stereo setting hard left and right you can use it as two preamps at once.
Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:33 am 
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Yeah, Jimi, I have one of the bigger brothers to that and the pre-amps are MUCH cleaner than you find in the G.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:35 am 
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Yes DC they do a massive range of different mixers all at great prices :D

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