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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Lone Star

Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:28 pm
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Machine type: AW16G
Hello everyone, I bought a second hand AW16G and have been impressed with it so far, however I have noticed a strange problem which is quite debilitating.

Now, although I've worked with a roland VS1680 this is the first time I've had a Yamaha recorder, so I'm open to the fact I might be doing something wrong - I hope this is true but I don't think it is the case sadly.

When I record onto track two, it will not record unless the channel one fader is up. I've tried recording direct to track 2 from input 2, and I have also routed to track 2. The same result. Now, what's strange is that the channels are not paired up, and when I turn the volume up on track one quickly, the volume doesn't return to track two quickly or in relation to the fader, it slowly ramps up - like it's going through some reverb - without a reverb wet sound.

So when I record like this - having both channel one and two faders up, the second channel fader does nothing after record, and channel one fader controls the volume of channel two.

This does not happen on any other channel - just the second channel. I have checked that channels one and two are not paired.

This was such a problem, I initialized the hard drive and tried again - no difference, the same problem existed. I then downloaded the firmware upgrade, I successfully upgraded however there was no difference.

:(


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:20 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Hi LT,

Welcome to the forum. I have no clue what that might be. You've done most of the things that I would do. One thing I'd definitely start with is unplug the machine from power and leave it like that for some time. You didn't mention that but I'm pretty sure you did.

There are a few techies aboard this ship, so give it some time and someone will probably be able to help.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:54 pm 
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HamelnStock Survivor and Midi Guru
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Hi There and welcome.

Are you sure they are not paired ? It sounds like they are from your explanaition. Try pressing both channel 1 & 2 selectors at the same time (Input) and confirm you want to break the pair'. It may solve the problem, or not. It won't harm your system in any way.

Other things you can try is to reset the channels using the monitor button and also by loading scene zero. After this remember that you may have to move faders, specifically the stereo one up and down for the machine to resume normal operation.

Check the effect screen by pressing on top of the effect knobs. You may have an insert effect active (if one of the little boxes is black in the upper part of the screen. Select it with cursor buttons and release the effects.

If anything else pops in my mind i'll post it. Other people will pop in too so be patient. If it is just a setting we'll find it ...

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:35 am 
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Spaminator Extraordinaire
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Machine type: AW2400
Hi and welcome. I think the paired tracks is spot on. If you listened to the demo or the previous setting stored in a scene are for a pair that would be it.

Go to scene and hit initial settings. That clears everything.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:49 pm 
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Lone Star

Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:28 pm
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Machine type: AW16G
Yeah, I've already checked the tracks weren't paired, I've also initialized the harddrive and setting with no effect. The only channels that are paired are the stereo channels.

Like I said, this is not normal fader operation with regard to the amount of gain change with fader movement. When the other fader is pushed up to unity, the sound doesn't hit infinity straight away - it should. Instead, the volume slowly ramps up until it hits infinity.

Due to that happening, I cannot honestly think this is normal behavour.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:10 pm 
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Greenhorn
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If you've not already tried this, set the effects and dynamics to off. it could be a compressor setting

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:35 pm 
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lonetraider wrote:
Yeah, I've already checked the tracks weren't paired, I've also initialized the harddrive and setting with no effect.



When you say initializing the hard drive, do you mean reformating? If not, have you done the initializing of the scene? Generally that is what can be the culprit.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:46 pm 
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Lone Star

Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:28 pm
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Machine type: AW16G
I had formatted the drive yeah, but I initialized the scene to the factory settings - 000, and now cannot get any sound out of the unit. There is definitely sound going into the unit, but no matter what song i select or what i do, i cannot monitor through headphones, and there is nothing coming out the master outs!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:04 pm 
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Lone Star

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Machine type: AW16G
It's ok, i managed to format the drive again and i am getting audio out the unit thankfully. However I noticed something strange in the fader view, all faders react on the screen to how I move the physical fader, however, track two's fader remains at 0db no matter what i do with it. Also, the virtual track two fader's track is shaded black - which i suppose means it has never been moved since the initialization of the unit.

Major scare over, back to the small one lol


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:16 pm 
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HamelnStock Survivor and Midi Guru
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As i have said before, after the initialization you have to move the faders all the way up and down a couple of times.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:29 pm 
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HamelnStock Survivor and Midi Guru
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it still seems tracks are paired. Do realise that tracks can be paired and inputs as well. They are not the same. On the 16G if tracks are paired you only see one fader. I can't recall a view where a fader is grayed out (could be my error). Can you possibly post a picture of what you are seeing ?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:38 pm 
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Marker Magician
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lonetraider wrote:
It's ok, i managed to format the drive again and i am getting audio out the unit thankfully. However I noticed something strange in the fader view, all faders react on the screen to how I move the physical fader, however, track two's fader remains at 0db no matter what i do with it. Also, the virtual track two fader's track is shaded black - which i suppose means it has never been moved since the initialization of the unit.

Major scare over, back to the small one lol



Sounds to me like a bad fader. Have you blown some compressed air in the fader's travel slot, to dislodge dust? There have been others on this site report similar problems, as I recall. That person had difficulties with another pair.

On the fader view, can you click to make number two the active track, and then use the jog wheel to set the value in the top (right?) corner?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:45 pm 
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Lone Star

Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:28 pm
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Favourite food: pasta
Machine type: AW16G
The tracks are not paired on the input or the track, I've checked this and I can say the track is definitely not paired. Another thing is, it is not acting like a normal pairing anyway - I have purposely paired tracks and have seen the difference. Remember, I've found when track two is selected for direct recording and track one fader moves up to 0DB the audio does not increase in line with the fader. I can push track one fader up to 0db, and have almost zero volume from track two, give it a second and the volume ramps up to 0db. The state of track two fader makes zero difference, but as there seems to be nothing happening when i move the fader (going by the virtual fader view) this points to a fader problem.

In fader view the track is not greyed out, however it has the black portion on the fader which seems to signify it hasn't been moved since initialization. All other tracks have this until I moved them.

Also, when I was in fader view, i didn't just move fader 2 up once or twice, i moved it up and down vigorously as I understand it might be a physical fader problem. I would find it strange however, as the fader feels the same as the rest. But like I said, even with this, the virtual fader didn't move.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:03 pm 
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HamelnStock Survivor and Midi Guru
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Did you know you can use the arrow keys in the view screen to move the focus to the track? Then turn the jog wheel. It will do the same as the fader movement but without moving the fader. If the track settings are ok it should work like this. In that case i'm affraid the physical fader may be done in as Byron said.

It seems he allready said the other thing too. didn't see that. Sorry. I believe Yamaha still repairs the units...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Lone Star

Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:28 pm
Posts: 8
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Machine type: AW16G
Yeah thankyou both, I've just confirmed this. It does seem like the potentiometer is faulty. However, I don't understand how channel one fader is able to partly take over from channel two fader and start to control two!

At least I can use the unit normally again, and hopefully a new potentiometer wont cost too much - so I'll replace it with time.

Thanks again for everyone's help!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:34 pm 
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HamelnStock Survivor and Midi Guru
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There could be a shortcircuit via a capacity that slowly gives off its load. Do you see the virtuall fader move as this happend ?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:55 pm 
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Lone Star

Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:28 pm
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Favourite food: pasta
Machine type: AW16G
Ok, I've made a little video showing the problem.


Link


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:47 pm 
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Spaminator Extraordinaire
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Machine type: AW2400
Yeah that video shows me it's not the fader. There's something odd going on. If you've done a Robbie, uh, I mean reformatted, then I'm at a loss. Maybe someone else will have some ideas.

_________________
GSMUSIC: Hey RZ, Im not no upper class american, the gear I own is what I have special to me. My car sucks, my house sucks, my nieghborhood sucks. Does yours RZ? Does it?

rz-land


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:53 am 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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The virtual fader's motion is proportional to the difference between the two values, which in my opinion indicates there's a capacitive link between the two. That's a hardware failure.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

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The proof of the cheese is in the eating


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:09 pm 
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HamelnStock Survivor and Midi Guru
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Robbie wrote:
The virtual fader's motion is proportional to the difference between the two values, which in my opinion indicates there's a capacitive link between the two. That's a hardware failure.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong.


I agree. I have been searching trough the manual. The only way to achieve something similar is via a midi loopback (connecting midi out directly to midi in). You would have to set severall midi options so it's unlikely and it would also react immediately. I'm affraid there is some shortcircuit in the board. This could be just dirt or corosion somewhere. It could also be a leaking capacity. I think you'll have to turn to repair services.

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http://www.soundclick.com/bearinabubble


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