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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:22 pm
Posts: 6
Machine type: AW4416
I just grabbed an AW1600 to go with my AW4416 which I've had for many years. When attempting to Restore a backup CD created on the AW4416, the AW1600 will recognize it as being created on the AW4416, but will not proceed to display the list of songs, instead returning to the "Read CD" command. (I did try several AW4416 backup CDs, all with the same incomplete result.)

Backups made on the AW1600 work just fine being Restored on the AW4416.

Any ideas as to why the AW1600 won't completely read and display the song list on the AW4416 backup CDs?

Thanks!!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:46 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3365
Machine type: AW2400
What kind of backups are you trying to restore? Are just the tracks to be moved or are settings going with it too?

What happens on the 4416 when you restore a 1600 backup?

Is there an option called 2816 backup available on the 4416? I'll read the manual and see what i learn, but these are the things needed to know before it will happen.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:14 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Machine type: AW2400
On the 1600 and 2400 the only way to get wav data onto a CD is through a backup. On the 1600 and 2400 there is no utility to write a single track of data to a CD. i guess they deemed this as unnecessary with the addition of USB to these later machines. The G has no USB, but individual track's WAV data can be written to a CD. So, on your 1600 you can choose to write to CD a complete backup of a song ( project) that includes the "mix" data (Eff EQ etc. settings) or just the WAV data (using the 2816 utility).

The 2816 utility allows a 1600 user (also G and 2400 users) to save all the WAV data in a song (all track virtuals too, except virtual 2-8 on the stereo track), without the specific settings data associated to the song.


The 4416 does not seem to have a parallel utility to the 2816 utility found on the 1600. But perhaps you can write individual wav data to a CD as on the G???. If so you could recover tracks individually. The 2816 utility on the 1600 allows this to be done as a "batch", but it could be accomplished through a more tedious route. It may mean restoring a backup to the 4416 (if not still on the machine) and doing it track by track to CD. The 4416 mix parameters, included in the 4416 backup, are not compatible with the 1600 anyway, I think.


Page 155 of the 1600 manual cover this aspect, saying that the 1600 is completely backwards compatible. But that is not yet your experience!!??

I might look at page 154 of the manual and look at the screen that shows a button called PAD. It need be OFF to show a list of song data. when ON, the display is of Libraries etc. , not Songs.

Perhaps bit depth or sample frequency coming from the 4416 might be effecting the 1600's ability to read/display.???

Let us know how this goes. I have pondered buying a 4416, just to have one. there are aspects on the 4416 that were not available on the later versions of the hardware. Though, It probably would be a big paperweight for me beside my 1600 and 2400 that lately have been holding down more paper than recording as much as they could. My issue, not theirs!!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:57 am 
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Lone Star

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:22 pm
Posts: 6
Machine type: AW4416
To clarify:

Complete multi-track backups created on the AW1600 using the "Save as AW2816" option, will successfully load and restore on the AW4416.

Multi-track backups which I have created over the years on the AW4416 will NOT restore on the AW1600, even though the 1600 sees it, and knows that it is a 4416 backup, (it says so!), it will not present the list of songs. It presents no list at all, but reverts to the initial "Read from CD" command button. All of these are 16-bit/44.1 backups.

So, yes, the AW1600 is backwards compatible, it is in the other direction that I've yet to be successful, despite the fact that the AW1600 knows that it is an AW4416 backup CD.

In reality, 1600-to-4416 is the direction which is more important to me, using the 1600 for "location" and "live" recording, then processing on the 4416... but it's strange that the 1600 goes half-way to reading the 4416 CD, but will not complete the process.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:12 am 
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Marker Magician
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Machine type: AW2400
I might look at page 154 of the manual and look at the screen that shows a button called PAD. It need be OFF to show a list of song data. when ON, the display is of Libraries etc. , not Songs.

I suggested this in a previous post. Did you check that out?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:56 am 
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Lone Star

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:22 pm
Posts: 6
Machine type: AW4416
Yes, took a look, but it never reaches the point where I can even click that button.

When I click on the "Read CD Info", it reads for a few seconds, then displays a "Recognize AW4416 CD Backup" button (with their "Oh, I see" message).
Upon clicking that button, it spins for a second then returns to the "Read CD Info" button.
It doesn't display any list, and I'm never able to access the screen level where the "Pad" button is.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:28 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Machine type: AW2400
???? The message that you quote is not within the list of messages and their meanings, as listed on page 209.

I can suggest that you ensure that the disc you are inserting is indeed the first of a series (if your backup was a multi-disc save). If that is confirmed and the message still appears I might try a message to Yamaha Support. You might get connected with someone who could explain. People have had good luck over the years getting some attention to questions. maybe hit and miss as this hardware ages.

Do you know of another 1600 user upon which you could bench test the backup?

Certainly if you were to send a disc to me via snail mail I would try it out for you.

Seeing as you have tried multiple backups it appears probably not to be corrupt data.

Will the machine read and play a regular, commercially produced CD? You say this machine is new to you?? Have you used the CD drive on the 1600 to create an audio disc of mixes on the machine ( for playback in your car etc.)? have you backed up a project on the 1600, (not an important one), erased the project, and then tried to restore the project. these steps might tell you if the problem is with the reader rather than the disc. ???

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:50 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Machine type: AW2400
Byron wrote:
I might look at page 154 of the manual and look at the screen that shows a button called PAD. It need be OFF to show a list of song data. when ON, the display is of Libraries etc. , not Songs.

I suggested this in a previous post. Did you check that out?


I went back to the manual and re read the section. It appears as if that screen is for restoration of backups created on the 1600. the screen you should expect is shown on page 155.

Sorry about that. but you are in the same bind, regardless.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:21 am 
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Lone Star

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:22 pm
Posts: 6
Machine type: AW4416
Yes, I've done all those things and there is nothing wrong with the drive itself. Every other function works fine, including making both backups and audio CDs.

I will continue to experiment and see what I can come up with. If it indeed is just a quirk, it is one I can live with, and doesn't really diminish the value of the deck to me, as, like I say, it does work in the other direction, (1600 to 4416), and that is what I will normally use.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:52 am 
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Lone Star

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:22 pm
Posts: 6
Machine type: AW4416
It suddenly dawned on me that I had not checked the firmware version. As it turns out, it was 1.1.. I did the firmware update to 1.13 and VOILA!... it now will read and load my AW4416 backups! It was one of the bugs they fixed.
:D


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:20 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Machine type: AW2400
These machines are tanks!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:12 am 
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Lone Star

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:22 pm
Posts: 6
Machine type: AW4416
The 4416 is still the all-time king, and, of course, with the expansion card I can record 16 tracks simultaneously, which is huge... but the abilities, ease of use, and portability of the 1600 are amazing! Still practicing with its editing capabilities.
Loving it!
8)


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