The DijonStock Digital Home Recording Support Forum

*** USER REGISTRATION DISABLED! FOR ACCESS TO THE BOARD, MAIL TO registration AT dijonstock DOT com. THANK YOU ***
It is currently Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:33 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:45 pm 
Offline
Cowhand
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:03 am
Posts: 648
Location: Cheshire U.K.
Favourite food: Fishcakes
Machine type: AW1600
Hi guys,

I'm currently mastering a CD. All of the tracks are pretty straightforward and I'm using the 'track at once' facility. There is one track, however, which is actually two songs. The second song runs straight after the first one with no break between. I'd really like to master it so that when the second song (i.e.the second part of the track) starts, it starts from zero on the CD (i.e. shows up as a separate track). Is there a way of doing this? Thanks for your help.

_________________
All progress is made by unreasonable men.

http://www.howardgardener.co.uk/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 11:30 pm 
Offline
Robbie The Botkiller
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:46 pm
Posts: 5004
Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
Machine type: AW16G
Yes it can be done but you'll need the "disc at once" method. That means that one single mastered stereo track is going to CD, while markers enable you to have a track counter on the CD player. That also means that you'll have to include those other songs onto one and the same stereo track, which is kind of a hassle.

That's my take on it, maybe it's too simple and in that case someone else will fill us in.

_________________

Don't judge the coffee by its cup.
The proof of the cheese is in the eating


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:42 am 
Offline
Has Been To Cheeseland
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:09 pm
Posts: 5967
Location: Just west of DEE-troit
Machine type: AW16G
I think you got it right, Robbie.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:28 am 
Offline
Cowhand
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:03 am
Posts: 648
Location: Cheshire U.K.
Favourite food: Fishcakes
Machine type: AW1600
I had a horrible idea that was going to be the solution. A friend of mine has a CD burner on which you can insert index points etc. Sounds as though that's going to be a much simpler option. Ah well - thanks again guys...

_________________
All progress is made by unreasonable men.

http://www.howardgardener.co.uk/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 1:09 pm 
Offline
Drivel Starter

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:43 pm
Posts: 233
Location: North of Toronto
Favourite food: Smoothie
Machine type: AW1600
Hold on there. With the "Disc at once" method you can actually load a number of songs to fill the disc. I've done it many times.
So if the tracks are already seperate songs (or marker seperated tracks) you only need to split the double song with a marker and add it to the burn list (all the other song/tracks) on your machine then use disc at once.
This seems too simple. What did I miss?
Bruce

_________________
If humanity is to pass safely through its present crisis on earth, it will be because a majority of individuals are now doing their own thinking". Buckminster Fuller
and..... 'learning to like to do what we have to do.'"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 1:25 pm 
Offline
Robbie The Botkiller
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:46 pm
Posts: 5004
Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
Machine type: AW16G
I think that I'm the one that missed something and the frustrating part was that somewhere deep inside (and you know that "deep" gets a whole new meaning) I knew my answer was not 100% accurate. That is why I hope someone would fill me in, and I'm glad you did.

I have a lot of grading to do tonight - that might be an opportunity to do some experimenting in the studio.

_________________

Don't judge the coffee by its cup.
The proof of the cheese is in the eating


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:13 pm 
Offline
Marker Magician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3349
Machine type: AW2400
Not sure this is entirely accurate, although could be wrong. Yes disc at ounce is the way to go, as there is no embedded digital "silence" with the disc at once dialog. the track at once inserts 2 seconds between each track.

The disc at once will stack the tracks up as you list them. so, if i was doing the project, i would make the two tracks as separate songs, and then list them consecutively on the burn list.

Bruce suggests putting a marker between the parts and the ( i presume) lighting the "Marker" flag, in order to separate them as individual tracks on the mastered disc. I am not sure how the machine would handle this build, if there are markers in any of the other songs that are populating the burn list.

I believe handling the two sections as separate songs, under a disc at once burn is the best. This would require that any space you want between tracks be attached to the end of the track, if you want the tracks to start immediately upon recall of that track.

Neither of these method is exactly the way a disc would be assembled in most mastering environments, where the spaces are attached at the beginning, but the countdown to a track's beginning is really a count up - using negative numbers.

_________________
Byron


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:35 pm 
Offline
Cowhand
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:03 am
Posts: 648
Location: Cheshire U.K.
Favourite food: Fishcakes
Machine type: AW1600
Whew! There's a whole lot of information that I need to get my head around!

The whole concept of markers is one that has eluded me. Previously, I have used a punch-in occasionally but to be honest, I'm not even sure that I cancelled them afterwards. I think I understand your idea, Bruce and Byron, and it would seem that the best way to proceed would be to cancel all markers in all the songs and then insert just the one in the required place on the 'double' track so that there's no confusion. Is that correct?

I also understand that I'll have to make sure that on all the tracks, I add the 2 seconds at the end before it goes into the 'burn' list. So, is there a way of cancelling all markers or do I have to go back, 'unprotect' the songs and do each one individually?

_________________
All progress is made by unreasonable men.

http://www.howardgardener.co.uk/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:48 pm 
Offline
Has Been To Cheeseland
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:09 pm
Posts: 5967
Location: Just west of DEE-troit
Machine type: AW16G
Apologies. I read Robbie's first post too quickly and keyed in on "disc at once" without paying much attention to the rest. Memo to self: read the whole post carefully before commenting. :oops:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:29 pm 
Offline
Marker Magician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3349
Machine type: AW2400
The markers used for in-out punchins won't affect the use of markers that trigger track assignment during a disc at once burn. The marker option is only triggered by markers dropped using the marker button. The A:B and IN:OUT drops are not considered as "markers".

If I were you, I would transfer the second part of the final mix (that you wish to have a separation marker) to a new song (at time 0:00). Delete the same section of the original mix (backup copies can be a lifesaver in the event there is some screw up).

Now list these as as separate items on your burn list. the two should be assembled seamlessly. But not having done this myself, to the best of my recollection, I will be interested in the result.

Going this route, there is no need to utilize the marker flag during the burn, and hence no need to review the whole project looking for markers that may get in the way of proper assembly.

_________________
Byron


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:36 pm 
Offline
Marker Magician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3349
Machine type: AW2400
gardenque wrote:
Whew! There's a whole lot of information that I need to get my head around!


is there a way of cancelling all markers or do I have to go back, 'unprotect' the songs and do each one individually?



There is a screen on which all the markers are listed. that screen is able to be edited. Not at my machine now, so can't give navigation instructions, but when you get there, there is a toggle button to show either "points" (A/B, Start, End etc.) or "markers". You want the list of markers, of course.

_________________
Byron


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 5:06 pm 
Offline
Cowhand
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:03 am
Posts: 648
Location: Cheshire U.K.
Favourite food: Fishcakes
Machine type: AW1600
Thanks Byron. I'll give it a go.

_________________
All progress is made by unreasonable men.

http://www.howardgardener.co.uk/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:31 pm 
Offline
Drivel Starter

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:43 pm
Posts: 233
Location: North of Toronto
Favourite food: Smoothie
Machine type: AW1600
I'm not near my machine but I am in front of the manual. Again interpreting the Jap/Eng translation, It says that markers can be enabled/disabled for each song entered into the track list.
Sounds like each of your songs are a single tune, right? Except for one song that needs splitting.( Quick edit>add marker>insert time> save. ) If the saved songs have a little space at the end or start you're good to just use disc at once and enable the marker. All the tracks show up numbered on the burnt disc but are not shown in the track list on the recorder. That only shows each machine saved song as a track. 3 songs, 3 tracks regardless of the number of markers. Although when you play the burnt disc it shows all the marker divisions as tracks on the player. You don't lose any track starts and no two tracks listed under one number ( unless a marker was forgotten or disabled).

It also says that you can adjust the track length saved/burned by moving the start and end points.
So if you used the track at once method select the song you need to edit> adjust the start/end points to capture the first half> save> burn> re-adjust the start/end points to capture the second half> save> burn>.
I have never tried this but the manual indicates it might be a good workaround.
Markers are so convenient and easy to use for many tasks. Just be sure to erase the markers buried under the start and end points (press Song key >Points> list of markers) or the whole song won't burn. You'll get a message, which means going over the process with a fine toothed comb making sure everything is saved right.

edit: you can easily add time at the end of a song by moving the end point in the points screen, then save.
Markers dont move with the recorded data. They sit at specific points within a song. If you delete or add material the markers have to be moved manually to line up.
This makes large songs with many tracks and markers a pain to split and copy and move around (markers don't follow).
Good Luck Gardenque
Markers are my allies. They can be yours to. :)
Bruce

_________________
If humanity is to pass safely through its present crisis on earth, it will be because a majority of individuals are now doing their own thinking". Buckminster Fuller
and..... 'learning to like to do what we have to do.'"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:47 pm 
Offline
Drivel Starter

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:43 pm
Posts: 233
Location: North of Toronto
Favourite food: Smoothie
Machine type: AW1600
Ay! Robbie. You're alright.

_________________
If humanity is to pass safely through its present crisis on earth, it will be because a majority of individuals are now doing their own thinking". Buckminster Fuller
and..... 'learning to like to do what we have to do.'"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:25 pm 
Offline
Marker Magician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3349
Machine type: AW2400
Good to know that the marker option is available to be used on individual tracks within a burn list. As Bruce said though, errant markers left within the songs may cause problems.

Another piece I have discovered over the years is that if you mix down a portion of a long recording ( say one song in the middle of a complete set that was recorded at a gig), the stereo track for that mix need not be moved to the start point in order to utilize it in a burn list. As long as the there is no data on the stereo track in the section preceding or following the mixed down section, the machine will burn only the mixed section and not include the empty space before or after.

_________________
Byron


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 2:25 pm 
Offline
Drivel Starter

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:43 pm
Posts: 233
Location: North of Toronto
Favourite food: Smoothie
Machine type: AW1600
Quote:
I have discovered over the years is that if you mix down a portion of a long recording ( say one song in the middle of a complete set that was recorded at a gig), the stereo track for that mix need not be moved to the start point in order to utilize it in a burn list. As long as the there is no data on the stereo track in the section preceding or following the mixed down section, the machine will burn only the mixed section and not include the empty space before or after.


Byron, thanks for that observation. I suspected it could be done but was to chicken to try it for fear of another rejected burn.
So I suppose if when moving the start and end points there is no need to have empty space before or after. Must try this next time I'm in the situ.
Bruce

_________________
If humanity is to pass safely through its present crisis on earth, it will be because a majority of individuals are now doing their own thinking". Buckminster Fuller
and..... 'learning to like to do what we have to do.'"


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group