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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:59 pm 
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Got Extra Points For Sticking With It

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Machine type: AW1600
I have a Yamaha AW1600. I have several recordings / songs and have had no problem puting all of them on a CD using the "Disc at once" button. All of them together use about 1/2 of the space available on a CD. When I just finished my latest recording I went to create a CD like usual with all songs on it. When I tried to use the "Disk at once" button and tried to add this new song to the line up I get the following message: "Marker Interval Under 4 Sec?" I went through and made sure that all markers were deleted but it still comes up and will not allow me to add this new song to the disc???? I can get this new song on to a CD by itself using the "Track at once" system but not the "Disc at once" because of the marker message. Anybody got any ideas??? I've read this manual 'til I'm worn out!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:08 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Hi Willy and welcome to the forum.

It's strange, because the 'disc at once' lets you choose whether or not to use the marker thing.

However there are other pointers you should take into consideration. A few presses of the song button takes you to the pointers start, end, in, out and a few more. Maybe something is wrong with these. For instance the start- and end pointer are not where they should be (the start at the start and the end at the end obviously). If they're too close, I wouldn't be surprised if the machine gave the same message.

After removing the markers, have you saved the song? Have you optimized?

Hope this helps.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:48 pm 
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Has Been To Cheeseland
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Hi Willy - in addition to the Big Cheese's advice, make sure the marker function is turned off in the disc at once screen. Since you deleted your markers in an attempt to resolve the problem, I'm guessing you don't mean to use the marker function (which automatically puts a song break wherever you have a marker).

There's something quirky about the marker function. I've gotten the 4 second message before, deleted all my markers, putthem right back in where I had them, and it worked fine. Go figure.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:22 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Sometimes a marker gets hidden under another. You may have lingering marker under the start, end, In, out points - these are permanent fixtures and so may mask a marker set close to where they happen to be.

There is a screen (in the song button section ???) that will display the location of all markers. A related screen displays all the "points" such as in , out, etc. Navigate to the markers screen and examine the times. You will find the offending marker somewhere... probably at the start ... If you can't find this screen, write back. I can give more specific instruction while seated at my machine.

i assume you wanted to use the marker function when you burned disc at once? If not, make sure the marker button has not been pushed. It goes dark or something, but the actual indicator that tells if the marker option has been selected is a flag that appear at the end of the song title in the list window.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:57 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Byron wrote:
Sometimes a marker gets hidden under another.


Clever.

I think you have to make the flag appear every time you do a disc at once, so my conclusion would be that "the marker function was still on" could not be a problem as the default is off. However as I type I get this weird sensation of confusion - and I'm not drinking.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:58 am 
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Got Extra Points For Sticking With It

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:37 pm
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Favourite food: steak
Machine type: AW1600
WOAH! This is my first time on this site and all I can say is I impressed - quick response and good info!!!! I tried everything that all you all recomended but still had problem. I believe there is simply a glitch at least in this song. I was not aware that you could create a "Disc at Once" without using the marker button. Gave that a shot and BINGO! Got it...working fine and now all songs on cd!!! All I can say is THANKS to all you guys for helping out. I REALLY appreciate it. And from half way around the world too!!! BITCHIN!!!! All the best.....
Willy


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:01 am 
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Marker Magician
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I bet it is not a glitch. there will be an errant marker. that screen I referred to earlier lists the exact time of each marker. Dollars to donuts there is a marker there that is within the 4 second no man's land. I'd bet it is right the beginning of the file. based on a frustrating experience from my learning curve.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:36 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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If Byron is right (and I'd put my money on it), press RTZ to get to 0:00:00.000, and then, at the bottom right of the machine, press cancel and mark simultaneously (like the shift on your pc keyboard). That will get rid of a marker at the beginning.

On a few occasions I had a song project behaving strangely and I could not discover the cause (which probably says more about me than about the machine). What I did was exporting the tracks to wav, create a new song, and import the tracks into that new song, thus getting rid of settings, markers etc.

BTW if you do not use the markers on "disc at once" (so, activate the little flag), your whole project will be one song on the CD. The CD player will show "track 1" throughout the project. Whether or not you want that, depends on the contents of the project. So, if you want the track counter to go up, you need to solve the marker problem.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:56 pm 
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Marker Magician
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go to the Song button. Tap it until the "point" box is active. A list shows the start - end points, In - Out, A - B points.

On this screen in the lower left is a box that allows you to change the list to a list of all the markers you have dropped. examine this list. ( 00:00:00:000 / 000.0 = Hrs:min:sec:ms / measure.beat. )

If you have two markers showing in the same measure or in sequential measures, they are likely too close together. Look at the Min:sec to determine this. you can change or erase this situation right on this screen.

If this is not what you find, let us know. Without fail this has been the situation every time the "marker too close" error message has appeared in my experience. So if something else is happening, it would be interesting to know about it.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:55 am 
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Got Extra Points For Sticking With It

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:37 pm
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Favourite food: steak
Machine type: AW1600
Update... Well, I've checked marker locations etc. Like Byron said, there was a hidden marker early in the song so I deleted it using the cancel / mark method. I was feeling good cause I just knew that was it! Re-mixed (to be sure) and tried to burn to cd using disc at once - got the same stinkin "4- second message" thing again. I went back in and re-read everything. Left no stone unturned. At least not one that I can find anyway. Still getting same 4-second message. &$#*!

Sooooo.... since I am able to get the song on to cd and I can make it all work even with this little snafoo I quit! It may be a glitch or I could be the glitch??? End result is the same. As far as this song on the Yamaha, I'm done. I'll just do it the old fashion way...I'll export and re-load into a new song on the Yamaha like Robbie said. That should fix it. Figured I'd better quit now while I still have some hair left. I love my 1600 but like me... it does have it's little quirks! Anyway, I sure do THANK YOU GUYS for all for your help!!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:24 am 
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Marker Magician
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Machine type: AW2400
As one final thought. Perhaps after you delete a marker, you might have to save the song to make the current set of markers the ones the machine looks for during the burn.

I have encountered the message several times before, as i do some work preparing long concert files that need to be split up to facilitate navigation when playing back the recording.

Another thought just came to me. When you split up a long file, the marker called "1" will actually be the spot where CD track # 2 begins. track one on the Cd always is taken from the Start pointer (usually 0:00). so if you drop a marker near the very beginning, thinking it is necessary to do so, in order there be a marker present to prompt the "disc at once" marker flag to create track one on the cd, this will prompt the error.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:25 am 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Nooo... don't quit. OK so you have a workaround, but not a solution.

As Byron says, do not put a marker at the very beginning. I can see the logic of assuming there should be one. But there shouldn't. Two tracks, one marker. Three tracks, two markers. And so on. Also, I can't stress enough the need to save the song. And optimize! But it's all been said before (I'm only repeating the geniuses here).

I'd love to invite you to upload your project file so I can take a look, but I have a G and not a 1600 so it's not going to work.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:15 am 
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Got Extra Points For Sticking With It

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 5
Favourite food: steak
Machine type: AW1600
Ok guys...I took a night off then I decided I would give it one more shot and try (or re-try) everything you all have suggested. I always save and optimize constantly so I know that's covered. I've deleted markers using the cancel / mark at same time method you suggested. That did get rid of a mark that seemed to be hiding early in the song and I really thought at that point I had it nailed. I tried with no markers at all. I've tried setting one marker at like 16 seconds and an out at like 23 sec (see below) as though I was doing a punch in / out. I've been in the "point" screen and here's a summary (hope this comes thru easy to read):
Position: Meas:
Rel. zero = 00:00:00:00.00
Start S = 00:00:00:00.00 001.1
End E = 00:04:31:10.99 157.1
When I tried setting only 2 markers they read:
In = 00:00:16.497 010.2
Out = 00:00:23.971 014.4
A:A... --:--:--.---
B:B... --:--:--.---
Under the "marker" button on the point screen this is the ONLY thing showing:
01 00:04:31.103

I have re-mixed to stereo tracks and tried multiple times. Bottom line...I'm still getting the 4 sec message??? I can also tell you that I put 11 songs on to a cd including this problem one and I did them as "disc at once" both ways: 1). Setting no markers (flags) at all as well as 2). Setting no flag on the problem song but DID set flags on ALL the other songs. When I put either CD in a CD player - you could not tell the difference as both cd's showed 11 different songs like normal.

I'm ok with the work around and can live with the situation. I am telling you all this just so you'll know that I think there can be a bug or glitch causing a problem so it may be of some help to someone down the line. Sorry for the long post and again, I REALLY APPRECIATE all your comments and efforts!!! Unless there is a glaring glitch (possibly me) somewhere, I'm moving on. THANKS AGAIN!!!
Willy


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:01 am 
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Marker Magician
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
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Machine type: AW2400
Willy wrote:
Ok guys...I took a night off then I decided I would give it one more shot and try (or re-try) everything you all have suggested. I always save and optimize constantly so I know that's covered. I've deleted markers using the cancel / mark at same time method you suggested. That did get rid of a mark that seemed to be hiding early in the song and I really thought at that point I had it nailed. I tried with no markers at all. I've tried setting one marker at like 16 seconds and an out at like 23 sec (see below) as though I was doing a punch in / out. I've been in the "point" screen and here's a summary (hope this comes thru easy to read):
Position: Meas:
Rel. zero = 00:00:00:00.00
Start S = 00:00:00:00.00 001.1
End E = 00:04:31:10.99 157.1
When I tried setting only 2 markers they read:
In = 00:00:16.497 010.2
Out = 00:00:23.971 014.4
A:A... --:--:--.---
B:B... --:--:--.---
Under the "marker" button on the point screen this is the ONLY thing showing:
01 00:04:31.103

I have re-mixed to stereo tracks and tried multiple times. Bottom line...I'm still getting the 4 sec message??? I can also tell you that I put 11 songs on to a cd including this problem one and I did them as "disc at once" both ways: 1). Setting no markers (flags) at all as well as 2). Setting no flag on the problem song but DID set flags on ALL the other songs. When I put either CD in a CD player - you could not tell the difference as both cd's showed 11 different songs like normal.

I'm ok with the work around and can live with the situation. I am telling you all this just so you'll know that I think there can be a bug or glitch causing a problem so it may be of some help to someone down the line. Sorry for the long post and again, I REALLY APPRECIATE all your comments and efforts!!! Unless there is a glaring glitch (possibly me) somewhere, I'm moving on. THANKS AGAIN!!!
Willy


I do believe the errant mark is at the end of the file.

In the Point > Marker screen on my 1600, if there are no markers, the list is blank.

You show a marker at 4 min. 31 sec 103 ms. The end point is just past this (i believe) at 4 min 31 sec and some ms.

To be perfectly honest, I am not sure how to interpret that time stamp on the start / end points, as it is different in the ms section ( .000 vs 00.00 ) than the time stamp on the in/out; A/B ; and Point>Marker display. Maybe your marker is after the end point ?? Perhaps someone will fill us both in as to why the Start/end /and rel zero are different. (time clock nomenclature - having to do with frames or something ??). At any rate - delete that marker and you will have solved the issue.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:44 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Machine type: AW2400
I was going to say that no one even commented upon the (presumed) final resolution of the marker mystery about which I have been dialoging

but

then I saw my new rank!

anybody got an explanation as to why the millesecond section of the time indicator is different for the start/end points and rel zero point?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:10 am 
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Got Extra Points For Sticking With It

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 5
Favourite food: steak
Machine type: AW1600
FIXED!!! Byron...you da man!!!! THANKS!!! I went in and deleted that end marker as you suggested via the marker button on the point screen, saved & optimized then tried to burn to cd using disc at once. When I hit the flag marker it worked...the pesky little 4 sec message was gone!!! As for the numbers:

Rel. zero = 00:00:00:00.00
Start S = 00:00:00:00.00 001.1
End E = 00:04:31:10.99 157.1

When I typed these in I hoped that they would line up easier to read. They did not. Fact is, the 001.1 at the end of the start and the 157.1 at the end of the end are the numbers that actually appear under the measure (MEAS) column. When it posted it did not keep the columns that I originally established and instead ran them together. If you look at the top headings you'll see that it says "position - Meas, side by side. Hope that solves the other section of the caper. Again guys, I can't tell you all how much I appreciate ALL your inputs and advise!
THANKS!!!!
Willy


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:37 am 
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Marker Magician
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Willy wrote:
FIXED!!! Byron...you da man!!!! THANKS!!! I went in and deleted that end marker as you suggested via the marker button on the point screen, saved & optimized then tried to burn to cd using disc at once. When I hit the flag marker it worked...the pesky little 4 sec message was gone!!! As for the numbers:

Rel. zero = 00:00:00:00.00
Start S = 00:00:00:00.00 001.1
End E = 00:04:31:10.99 157.1

When I typed these in I hoped that they would line up easier to read. They did not. Fact is, the 001.1 at the end of the start and the 157.1 at the end of the end are the numbers that actually appear under the measure (MEAS) column. When it posted it did not keep the columns that I originally established and instead ran them together. If you look at the top headings you'll see that it says "position - Meas, side by side. Hope that solves the other section of the caper. Again guys, I can't tell you all how much I appreciate ALL your inputs and advise!
THANKS!!!!
Willy


At the very end of the time code there is always the measure count. I was referring to the to the time count, which is 00(hr);00(min):00(sec):000(milliseconds) this is the way the markers, A/B points, In/out points and the running time are displayed. but if you look at the section following the seconds on the points list, at the Start,End ,Rel Zero there are not three numerals :000, but rather :00.00. It says somewhere in the manual what/ why this is - I just don't remember.

On a further note regarding your burn - perhaps you are not clear on what that marker flag does on the disc at once burn dialog. there is no need or advantage to choosing the marker flag, if there are no markers. The flag is there as a utility to create separate CD tracks out of a long, continuous stereo track. this is really handy if you have a choir concert for instance, and wish to produce a CD of the whole concert, but want to have separate tracks so the listener can navigate to the desired spot in the concert. If you are diligent about dropping markers as the concert proceeds, this saves time in post production. If you go back to place markers after the fact, that work/search is all done in real time, without ability a) to listen as you FF or REW or b) to watch a wav form display as you search.

But, if you drop markers during the recording of a concert, and then delete a section of the track during post production, to get rid of a long winded MC or a piece that sounds like crap ( there is always one or more with community choirs or bands), the markers will get screwed up in relation to the material. Markers are points in time, not related to the material. so when you delete, the material moves, but not the marker.

By the way, you get extra points for sticking with it. the only way to learn the machine intimately is to not let these little mysteries be dubbed glitches. these machines have remarkably few problems.

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Byron


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:22 pm 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Byron wrote:
you get extra points for sticking with it.

You too, Byron. I would have been ready for the workaround, you sticked with the problem and solved it.

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