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 Post subject: Master Fader?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:33 am 
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Lone Star

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:40 am
Posts: 6
Machine type: AW16G
Hi, I'm an infrequent AW16G user, just working an a project.
Many of my tracks are quite 'loud', so when creating my scenes for mixing, I've ended up with the master fader set at -8
With this the master levels are just peaking to 0 on the loudest accents.
When I go to mix down the Monitor screen (for the stereo track) again shows peaks to 0
But when I play back the stereo track, it is quiet and only peaks to -8

Do I need to go back and reset all my scenes with the master set to 0 (and re-adjust all the other faders!), or is there something else I'm missing?


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 Post subject: Re: Master Fader?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:49 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Machine type: AW2400
I have some idea about your situation, but no time right now to explain. I will be back later today,

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 Post subject: Re: Master Fader?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:53 pm 
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Have you looked at your virtual fader page to see if possibly a scene is locking the master fader? Just a thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Master Fader?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:25 am 
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Marker Magician
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That is a good thought. If you are an infrequent user, perhaps you don't know or have forgotten, that the placement of the fader is not necessarily the actual value. as Ron suggests, look at the virtual placement, but where to see it I am not sure i am not sure. the virtual fader page perhaps does not show the Stereo faders value. I will look on my 1600 next visit to the desk.

beyond that, the other aspect of which an infrequent user might be unaware is that the the virtual value can be picked up by the fader when its path crosses the virtual value. So a necessary habit, particularly if you are utilizing scenes is to run faders from top to bottom, to ensure the fader is actually in control. I recall when I worked at mixes that way, there was want to combine scene changes with real time, hands-on moves during the mixdown. so if the virtual value of a fader is changed by a scene recall, then the fader will no longer control until you cross the virtual value. If the scene puts it down and you wanted to subsequently manually bring it up during the mix, then simply moving the fader would not work, You have to first draw the fader down. You can see the fader regain control on the virtual fader screen, when the path of a fader turns black on the screen. But that necessitates having that screen up during the mixdown, or being able to navigate to it if necessary. Busy, busy.. Auto mix is much efficient!!

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 Post subject: Re: Master Fader?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:56 am 
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Marker Magician
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PaulF707 wrote:
Hi, I'm an infrequent AW16G user, just working an a project.
Many of my tracks are quite 'loud', so when creating my scenes for mixing, I've ended up with the master fader set at -8
With this the master levels are just peaking to 0 on the loudest accents.
When I go to mix down the Monitor screen (for the stereo track) again shows peaks to 0
But when I play back the stereo track, it is quiet and only peaks to -8

Do I need to go back and reset all my scenes with the master set to 0 (and re-adjust all the other faders!), or is there something else I'm missing?


First advice would perhaps be to turn down your monitors, if you mean "loud" that way.

If you mean "loud" as in peaking, you can do a bit of detective work and find what is creating the spikes that approach 0dB. these spikes keep the average value of the volume down. So working at controlling those spikes is worth the time. Control can be achieved in a number of ways, compressor, EQ, volume change (permanent or actively during a mix). Scenes can play a part. but the intricacies and time consumption keeping a set of scenes up to date and matching where necessary leads to frustrations. Things always get over looked.

Another suggestion when you create a mix is to make sure the attenuation dial (virtual) at the head of the signal chain is utilized for best effect. There will be a screen that shows the signal chain of the stereo track. You are able to turn a mix up or down, before it gets to any EQ, DYN, EFF, or the red fader. Very handy. As Ron suggested,the red fader's value ( at the end of the signal chain), perhaps has been turned down by scenes, so check that. A handy way to use this feature (allowing attenuation at the head of the chain) occurs when you have a mix that is working, but as it builds during creation you end up pushing up the mix signal. so, rather than re-adjusting all the faders ( the mix is working as you recall), turn down the mix level at the head of the stereo bus chain. Now the red fader can stay up. But, when you go to listen to your creation, the last adjustment or scene that purposely attenuated down the mix signal is still in control. so you must remember to turn the stereo bus's attenuation dial back to 0dB, to listen to your mix at "full output volume".

You can utilize a cut at the head of any track's chain too, if the track is too hot to keep the fader up near 0dB (where you have the best range of control for fine adjustment).

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 Post subject: Re: Master Fader?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:05 pm 
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Byron wrote:
the placement of the fader is not necessarily the actual value. as Ron suggests, look at the virtual placement, but where to see it I am not sure i am not sure. the virtual fader page perhaps does not show the Stereo faders value. I will look on my 1600 next visit to the desk.



The actual value of the stereo fader can be seen on a channel view, using the VIEW button. Then tap the select key of any track or input or bus to see the signal chain.

The virtual fader page ( also under the VIEW button) does not show the Stereo Bus's fader placement.

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 Post subject: Re: Master Fader?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:41 am 
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Lone Star

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:40 am
Posts: 6
Machine type: AW16G
Thanks all - your very helpful suggestions have helped me identify my error (I was fairly sure it was me and not the AW16G!)

The output from the stereo track (and more importantly the onscreen VU meters for playback) are both 'Post' the red master fader - so pushing the master fader back up to max (0db) shows the 'true' levels of the Stereo Track (which are pushing towards 0db as expected).

However, the automation I have set on the song also applies to playback of the stereo track - so the master fader is constantly 'reset' during playback (which is a little frustrating).

I will have to experiment to see if export of the audio from the Stereo track is affected by automation, and if so I guess I'll have to remove the scene changes from the track for the final export?

Thanks again,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Master Fader?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:46 am 
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Lone Star

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:40 am
Posts: 6
Machine type: AW16G
Exporting the track to WAV showed the track at the expected levels (peaking to 0db) - so all is fine...

Thanks again


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 Post subject: Re: Master Fader?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:17 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Yes, scenes linger, so you have to make sure the stereo track is not attenuated for "accurate" playback.

Don't ignore my advice about utilizing the attenuation dial at the head of the Stereo Track's signal chain, during mix creation. It is almost impossible to turn every aspect of a mix down in order to control its peaks, without affecting the balances within. So bringing it all down together is "safer"
.

You can both cut and add here, on the stereo track. on the rest of the tracks you can only cut using this dial.. The 2400 allows both cuts and adds on all tracks and so can be used to boost a weakly tracked signal. This is one of the features I most like about the 2400 over the G and the 1600. On the G, if you have a weak track that you desire to boost for the mix, you can add digital gain through inserting DYN, even if you have the ratio set 1:1 (no compression).

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 Post subject: Re: Master Fader?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:37 pm 
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Lone Star

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:40 am
Posts: 6
Machine type: AW16G
Byron wrote:
Yes, scenes linger, so you have to make sure the stereo track is not attenuated for "accurate" playback.

Don't ignore my advice about utilizing the attenuation dial at the head of the Stereo Track's signal chain, during mix creation. It is almost impossible to turn every aspect of a mix down in order to control its peaks, without affecting the balances within. So bringing it all down together is "safer"
.

You can both cut and add here, on the stereo track. on the rest of the tracks you can only cut using this dial.. The 2400 allows both cuts and adds on all tracks and so can be used to boost a weakly tracked signal. This is one of the features I most like about the 2400 over the G and the 1600. On the G, if you have a weak track that you desire to boost for the mix, you can add digital gain through inserting DYN, even if you have the ratio set 1:1 (no compression).



Thanks - I'll look into that....


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