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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:47 am 
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I know that using a high pass filter (HPF) is common on individual tracks for a mix (although I never do it). I was thinking of using it on the full mix of the current song I'm working on.

I tried several cutoff frequencies, starting at 100 Hz. Don't hear much difference at 71 Hz and almost none at 60 Hz. FYI, it's a western swing style song. I'm too old for rap or hip-hop. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:01 am 
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Hi Ralph, on individual tracks I cut off everything below 200hz, (or as high as I can without affecting the track instrument) on all instruments except kick and bass, gives plenty of room for the lower instruments to breathe, and as far as stereo track is concerned everything below 35hz-50hz(depending on the song) and a slow roll off at 12khz-13khz.
100hz is ok, as long as it`s a slow roll off your still leaving a lot of bottom end there, but obviously if it`s a steep roll off it will sound a bit thin, that`s why I use software for the HPF and LPF because there is an option of 6db,12db,24db and 36db roll offs.

Good luck with what your doing.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:43 pm 
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I high pass regularly on individual tracks and on the master track. My cutoff point is material dependent. When you are working with high track counts, effective "passing" is essential (for me) to have everything heard that you want to be heard.

Most of the time I roll off steeply to eliminate low/lows. Sometimes it is a good idea to roll off less steep to maintain some warmth, again.....material dependent.

In addition to removing mud or low end masking effect, high pass filters are very effective in front of (in the signal chain) compressors or limiters. Many compressors and limiters, especially those on the master buss, work better when low/lows are eliminated beffore you hit them.

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Gary


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Hey Gary! great advice (IMHO).

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:10 am 
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Thanks for the tips, guys! I'm going to give that HPF a workout! :)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:49 pm 
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Byron wrote:
Hey Gary! great advice (IMHO).


Thanks Byron. It is advice I read about and apply to our mixes.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:21 am 
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If you're using near field monitors, you can roll off anything starting at about 70 and diving down at 30. Near fields (6 to 8") just don't have the push to hear what you're doing under that. In the end, yeah, it's material dependent. Freqs under 50 are felt, not, for the most part heard. Techno, house, anything that needs to be felt as a genre would not want to be rolled off without verifying what you're doing on some subs.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:33 am 
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I run all signals to the aw1600 via a preamp, which has a HPF. I had thought that all low frequency stuff that I did not want was therefore eliminated during tracking, hence no need to worry about this during mixdown. Is that right ?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:03 am 
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Interesting advice. It's good to know that i am on the right track because i also use high pass a lot. I think the art is in knowing exactly where to cut and how much or how steep. From what i hear many stereo systems overemphasize the bass, but do so in different frequencies. In the mid frequencies it seems to be the crossover that enhances some of the tones. If that combines with something that gets amplified within the space you are listening in it can sound completely different from what you heard in your mixing environment which could very well be doing exactly the opposite. I guess you can't make a mix that will sound great on any system in any environment. As has been said before i think that acoustically threating your own studio will be the best bet for getting your mixes right but you have to know exactly what you are doing or you will end up making it worse. That leads me to the question 'are there ways to measure what my room does to my sound ?'

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:11 pm 
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T.Mac. wrote:
Hi Ralph, on individual tracks I cut off everything below 200hz, (or as high as I can without affecting the track instrument) on all instruments except kick and bass, gives plenty of room for the lower instruments to breathe, and as far as stereo track is concerned everything below 35hz-50hz(depending on the song) and a slow roll off at 12khz-13khz.
100hz is ok, as long as it`s a slow roll off your still leaving a lot of bottom end there, but obviously if it`s a steep roll off it will sound a bit thin, that`s why I use software for the HPF and LPF because there is an option of 6db,12db,24db and 36db roll offs.

Good luck with what your doing.
T.
http://www.tmacmusic.com


T. Mac,

This is good intel. I just started a thread on EQ and asked about use of the hi-pass filters; your post gives some good guidelines. Don't know how I missed this thread when I was trying to absorb everything in the forum re: EQ.

Thanks, Randy

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:12 pm 
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I forgot to ask, do you run a hi-pass filter when you record the tracks, or just during mixdown?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:30 pm 
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I generally do not run any HPF on tracks on the way in. This of course might be different if I am grabbing signal from the board whilst doing live Front Of House mixing during a performance.

As advised earlier, HPF is essential to defintion of balances within the mix. The number can be surprisingly high, once set within the context of mix

Related note - I was recently learning about Cubase on a friend's gear and was surprised the EQ suites seemed not to make reference to HPF. there was of course roll-off and Q control in the bottom slot, but not HPF ?? The Yamaha AW and Wavs EQs with which I generally work have both Roll Off and HPF in the bottom slots of the EQ suite.

Anybody able to shed light on the difference between what is labelled a Rolloff and what is labelled HPF?

I usually have a HPF on my "mastering" chain, but the number will be quite low ie. < 50 hTz. Again - material dependent.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:38 am 
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Howdy!
My personal opinion is that if you have to high pass the final product, something ain't right on the way in. I never high pass the final. If you dial your stuff in individually, there should be no reason to fix an issue with the bottom with such a drastic eq maneuver. The final eq is a matter of +- .5 to 1 db in selected areas to fine tune. No big fixes here for mud or boominess...that happens on the tracks. It should sound pretty damn good to you before you mess with the master EQ. If it doesn't, back to the tracks!

-= Beer

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Beerosaur wrote:
Howdy!
My personal opinion is that if you have to high pass the final product, something ain't right on the way in. I never high pass the final. If you dial your stuff in individually, there should be no reason to fix an issue with the bottom with such a drastic eq maneuver. The final eq is a matter of +- .5 to 1 db in selected areas to fine tune. No big fixes here for mud or boominess...that happens on the tracks. It should sound pretty damn good to you before you mess with the master EQ. If it doesn't, back to the tracks!

-= Beer


Totally agree 8)

T.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:10 pm 
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Byron wrote:

Related note - I was recently learning about Cubase on a friend's gear and was surprised the EQ suites seemed not to make reference to HPF. there was of course roll-off and Q control in the bottom slot, but not HPF ?? The Yamaha AW and Wavs EQs with which I generally work have both Roll Off and HPF in the bottom slots of the EQ suite.

Anybody able to shed light on the difference between what is labelled a Rolloff and what is labelled HPF?

I usually have a HPF on my "mastering" chain, but the number will be quite low ie. < 50 hTz. Again - material dependent.


Byron, in cubase you go to eq for the track and switch on a four channel parametric eq. ( Channel by channel ) Each channel can be set in either low pass, high pass or shelving with adjustable q and freq, overlapping if you want. it has about the same eq options as the yammies. that is not counting the various vst's that give you endles options. also you can record automationl an have the eq change while the song is playing back. cool things to discover there. I guess you did not see you can change eq behaviour for each channel on the bottom. If you want i can paste in a screen shot later today.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Thanks Dirk, next time i am over there i will go to the channel EQ, as you suggest and show my pal the advantages of the HPF.

If you have time, paste a screen shot, so i can recognize the screen when at my friend's desk. He showed me three or four EQ options, from plugins I guess. but you are recommending the Cubase resident EQ, so a picture to differentiate would be good. thanks again for your support on this.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:43 pm 
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Byron, i'm sure by now you have seen the mixer in cubase. The easiest way to get to equalizer is by the side bar (left) but for a first timer to see clearly what is possible look for the little 'e' on the the channel of choice in the mixer. Like below.

Image

Then channel settings window should open looking like this.

Image

I have to correct myself as it is the left button you need to click on where it says 'parametric' or 'high pass' or 'low shelf' ro something similar in the bottom row of each eq and you have to switch the eq 1, 2 3 and/or 4 on for that channel. You can also click in the eq grid in the middle and drag the mouse to set eq's. While you are there look at inserts and sends. click on one, choose effect and you'll get a new window. The adventure has started. Don't forget you have automation too. Each channel has an 'R' and a 'W' these stand for read and Write automation. click on the 'W' and play the song changing eq or other settings. Then rewind, click W again (switch off write) click 'R' and play the song again. The eq or whatever you have changed during the song will now repeat what you have done. It's like having hundreds of moving faders and knobs. The adventure has begun ...

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:00 am 
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Yes, I have seen that screen. Navigation to the type of curve seems straight forward. Missed it as i showed my friend, as i was busy telling him the theory of using a HPF and why we carve up the EQ in seemingly radical ways - whilst i relied on him to navigate about the screen. I will give him a navigation lesson next. I assume the symbols below the EQ symbol on the channel strip are the effects and sends?? I understand the automation symbols and procedures. Am I right in understanding you to say that you would use the W in real time to map your changes and then the R to read them, an both of these would happen in real time? If this is true, then that would make the AW 2400 faster in the automation procedure,as the performing of changes is done in real time, but it is a simple splash screen question the asks yes or no to the keeping of your moves. - so one real time pass for the AW Vs. two for the software! Correct me if i am wrong.

Thanks again.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:49 am 
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Byron,

The e does not stand for eq on the mixer. It opens a channel settings window. In that window the middle part is the eq, the inserts are on the left and the sends on the right, you can also set the panning and the level there but as in other softwares there are many shortcuts. The symbols you refer to allow you to switch on and off the effects and sends.

A tip maybe if you hold the mouse cursor motionless above one of these symbols it will show a tooltip telling you what it is for.

About the automation, its just a matter of switching on the read and the write, play the song while making changes and then switcing of the write to avoid accidental automation moves. Its just as fast as you describe for the aw2400. The difference is you can automate just about anything, eq, panning, level, the q or the freq for the eq and each and every slider and knob you find on the inserts and sends. Its crazy powerfull.

Duplicating tracks takes one second, and if you use the mouse buttons on the tracks you will see tools to edit the tracks, by cutting, pasting, double click goes into wave editing.

The only reason why i don't use it all the time is the fan noise of my laptop ruining the acoustic recording. Often i can't find the time to transfer the tracks i have made from the aw and since most things also work good on the aw i keep it there. That aside I think cubase is a real producer powerhouse. I have not even started about vst's yet. Even the LE version that comes with some hardware is very powerfull and effective. You just need an absolute silent pc or mac.

If you want we can find a time on which i can show you around the screens with remote assistance. ( i can control the screen of you friends pc from mine if you don't know what that is. Sorry if i'm stating the obvious. I don't know your level of pc knowledge.)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:38 am 
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It`s good to see your obviously enjoying eqing etc. in software Dirk, the benefits are enormous.

T.

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