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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:03 pm 
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Tinhorn

Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:33 pm
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Machine type: AW16G
I'm laying down tracks for a country-blues ditty, and so far have recorded the following on separate tracks:

Kick drum (drum machine)
hi-hat (drum machine)
stereo drum kit (drum machine)
bass
acoustic guitar (actually double-tracked, but I doubt if I'll use the second track)
electric guitar

I have a vocal (possibly harmonized in a few places) and a harmonica still to record, and already the rough mixes are as muddy as the bottom of the mighty Mississippi. The flattop is strummed, the tele is a few licks and arpeggios, and the harmonica will take a solo ride and comp "horn" parts during the vocal. I haven't applied corrective EQ yet and have some questions about the G's EQ section.

1. During mixdown, if I push the EQ knob and push one of the track selection knobs, I will be adjusting the EQ for that track. Can I also just load one of the presets from the LIbrary, or are those just for inserting? After loading a preset or adjusting the various EQ parameters to suit, I'm done with that track. If I then push another track selection knob, can I readjust/load for that track, tweak and move on to the next track, or does the EQ section function like the Effect sections, i.e. set it up and then that setting applies to any track that you send to it?

2. Assuming that I can adjust the EQ independently for each track, if I save the song, and then go back and make futher EQ adjustments on already EQed tracks, is the result cumulative, or is it a one-shot deal? If I can go on making EQ adjustment after EQ adjustment, methinks it would be prudent to copy the raw tracks to a virtual track, and then EQ the virtual tracks, preserving the raw tracks for when I go overboard with multiple EQ adjustments and ruin a track. Is this what you do?

3. I see that by adjusting the Q knob you can engineer a hi-pass or low-pass filter, which I guess I'm going to have to make heavy use of (hi pass) for all the mud. How effective do you find hi-pass filtering to be in clearing up the mud?

4. What do you guys do? Do you generally find yourseld cutting most everything of low frequencies, and judiciously cutting midrange to allow things like the vocal to remain dominant? Do you have a standard palette of EQ adjustments you find yourself using? I've searched the forum and elsewhere on the web, and there's no lack of quite specific EQ suggestions, but do you find that you have something of a method or standard operating procedure for how you approach EQing your mixes? Or do you just use your ears, honed by years and years of making mistakes in EQing until you finally acquired wisdom? If it's the latter then I'm screwed, at least for this current mix, haha! How do you go about adjusting? One track at a time? Rhythm tracks first? Vocals first? Pour a glass of whiskey and just shake your head?

Thanks for your insights,
Randy

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:38 pm 
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You're touching on a topic that haunts most of us. I've always struggled with eq. But it's what you need to settle each instrument nicely in to the mix. The mud you're referring to is probably the bass and drums fighting each other for frequency. That eq is there for post production. Each track has it's own. I am a preset user. I click for instance the bass guitar track, find the eq labeled bass and run with it. It pretty much removes a lot of the bottom. Surprisingly enough even guitar eq can remove some of the bottom end. But you need to be cautious there or you'll do what I did once and have too tinty of a guitar. Depending on how you recorded your drums and on how many tracks, the eq can help you clean up each piece of the percussion. If you're using a drum machine on two tracks then you'll probably want to start with the bass drum eq preset.

Once I have those tracks preset, if I feel the need, I'll continue to roll off some bottom where I think it needs to be done. Another thing that helps reduce mud is giving each track it's own space in the stereo spectrum. So by panning things to get them out from underneath one another, you are also clearing the air so to speak.

Keep at it. Practice makes perfect.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:51 pm 
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I see you found another thread. It is a good discussion,

As to other ??? EQ is part of the chain and adjustments relate to individual tracks, not busses (eg effect busses), and adjustments are not cumulative following a save. you can adjust to your heart's content.

As for copying to virtuals - not always necessary - as you can (and should) A/B by turning on the Bypass. But backing up of complete projects to another media will insure access to original tracks should disaster happen.

Remember that EQing is actually adding and subtracting gain in the specified frequencies. Adds generally change/build the sound. Cuts usually define/enhance the sound. the fact that overall gain changes is the reason that a gain adjustment knob is available on that screen. Changes using this knob will be observed to be at the front of the chain (View Screen) rather than as makeup gain, as in the DYN section. Your compressors will be affected, sometimes greatly, depending on chain sequence. Can't recall - do the G and 1600 allow you to change the insert point of the DYN section? I recall the EQ is static in the chain. The 2400 allows pre EQ , prefader and post fader placement of the DYN section. Software platforms (and my y96k card) allow even greater flexibility in chain assignment.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:01 pm 
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Tinhorn

Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:33 pm
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Machine type: AW16G
I realized that I missed a whole sub-forum full of Mixdown posts under the G forum section; I had reviewed the other Mixdown sub-forum. So I've been studying . . .

Well, I think I'm going to copy all of my raw tracks to virtuals and then start experimenting with the Library EQ presets and the Hi/lo pass filters. It seems to me that a novice could quickly ruin tracks by thinking that an EQ adjustment was a good one, saving the song, and then subsequently realizing that the EQ adjustment had, say, cut valuable parts of the track which cannot be recovered. EQ=powerful tool=great potential for screwing up. I want to leave a bread-crumb trail so I can go back if I need to.

Thanks for your help!

Randy

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:45 pm 
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Tinhorn

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Machine type: AW16G
OK, this will sound pretty stupid, but I don’t understand how track EQ adjustments function. It’s either one way or the other:

A) You make EQ adjustments to the track and save the song. The new EQ is “baked into the cake” and any subsequent EQ adjustments are on top of the first adjustment. The track is forever changed after saving the song, and the original, un-EQed track is lost.

- or –

B) You make EQ adjustments to the track and save the song. The new EQ is reversible by merely going into the EQ section and making changes, even back to the way it was, for instance. If this is the way the EQ function works, then only one adjustment to the track is possible, but you can change it as many times as you want until you’re happy with the result. Saving the song does not mean that you’ve “saved” the EQ adjustment.

Which is correct? Or am I even denser than I thought and neither of these descriptions accurately reflects reality?

Thanks, Randy

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:01 pm 
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Sloping and cutting out frequencies on every track that are not needed, low and high, makes for a much clearer cleaner stereo track.
Around 140 hz is where a lot of muddy crap builds so scooping out around that area will almost certainly help.
Good luck.

T.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:40 pm 
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Option B is the truth for working on any AW machine.

Should you wish to "bake in" your EQ, as you have described, you could do this on the input channel, on the way in, AS you are tracking your performance

OR

You could do a stereo mixdown of a single track, with you first EQ settings and the pan centered, and then move the mixed info back to a track, for further work upon it. I can't see where this this would be useful though.

OR

I suppose you could EQ your track and send it out an AUX out > back into an input, and then you could assign and further enhance the input's EQ signal and send it to stereo bus for inclusion in the mix. It would be possible to turn the sending track's connection to the stereo bus off, but still leave it connected to the AUX out for routing to the stereo bus via an input. Again, I can think of limited circumstance where this might be worthwhile. Actually, you could do this beneficially, in order to apply a GATE to a previously recorded track, as there are GATES on the inputs, but not the tracks.

Suggestion - Rather than use the virtuals(2-8), behind your track V1, try copying your track to a different track number, so then you can easily A/B and you can also experiment with differing EQ and Panning positions. Two identical/similar track panned hard L R will sound as one track panned C, but with a bit more oomph. Also, slight time and pitch adjustment is sometimes used to "thicken". I sometimes leave the tracked vocal, EQd as i like, but quite dry of effects and panned to C. Two copies of the track are then placed elsewhere on a stereo pair, panned LR, usually EQd similarly to the fundamental track, but more heavily compressed and ramped up with some reverb, and then mixed in at lower volume for support and placement (depth).

Play around and you will find ways of utilizing your tracks.

Just remember, EQ is a specialized, frequency-related, volume (gain) adjustment. Perhaps your misconception derives from the ease at which tracks in software based platform can be rendered, which indeed "bakes in", through processing. AWs work in real time, the results of which are recorded in real time, as opposed to the rendering (quick processing) available with software. But even software EQ settings are just that - settings - they are not locked in each time you save .... > remembered upon restart? yes Locked in? no

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 Post subject: Q
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:32 am 
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Some things I've learned ... mud lives around 60hz
1. Definately put a high pass on everything acoustic. On the low stuff (kick, bass), move it til you hear it change, then back it off a little bit.
2. Guitars can be eq'd pretty thin sounding when you solo them, and they'll still sound great in the mix and give less mud. Guitars can add a LOT of mud, thin them out alot.
Sometimes just one string can be booming...find it, eq it out.
3. On the whole mix, cut around the 60 hz area with a very thin Q and you'll lose some mud.
4. Spend a lot of time on the panning to separate stuff and avoid freq battles.
5. Get the drums and bass squared away before you do anything else.

I think if you dial these simple things in, you will hear a huge difference and be at a better starting point.

Hope it helps! I'm not much help on how to actually do these things on the Yammy....

-= Beer

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:29 pm 
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Obviously there is no one frequency wether it`s 60htz or 140htz that is going to completely free your tracks of mud, I alway`s find that 140htz is where it resides when I personally record, it maybe the way I play or my bass and guitars set upI don`t know, it`s all trial and error and depends on so many factors, how you play bass or guitar finger or pick, style of music and what other instruments are competing for space, a good way to find the crap frequencies is to use the eq to sweep across the frequencies at an exaggerated volume and see which ones are jumping out and slapping your face, then bring the volume down a few db`s at that point.
There is no quick fix it`s a case of how much time you are prepared to sit and battle it out with the eq graph, or for some how much time they actually have.
I used to be one of the "that`ll do brigade" because I could`nt be bothered to do the battling with frequencies, but since I got more and more into it it`s actually quite fun, and learns you what to listen to and what for.
Good luck.

T.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:30 pm 
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Great post lads - !!!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:24 pm 
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Speaking of the "That'll do brigade." I'm trying to be less like that. It breaks my heart to hear some of my old stuff and wish I would have dialled it in just right...you can never re-capture performances and fix em later.

Take your time with the eq and each track. When you listen back a couple of years from now, make sure you can go..ahhh, that's still sounds nice !

-= Beer

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:00 pm 
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Soooo True!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:04 am 
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Beerosaur wrote:
Speaking of the "That'll do brigade." I'm trying to be less like that. It breaks my heart to hear some of my old stuff and wish I would have dialled it in just right...you can never re-capture performances and fix em later.

Take your time with the eq and each track. When you listen back a couple of years from now, make sure you can go..ahhh, that's still sounds nice !

-= Beer


Yeah I know Beer, I revisited six of the previous cd`s I`ve done and had a go at redoing the eq a little, took such a long time and hopefully I never have to go back to do another.
Enjoy your day.

T.

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