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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:11 pm 
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Tinhorn

Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 268
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Machine type: AW16G
The G certainly has a lot of built-in features and I make regular use of the libraries, at least as a starting point for adjusting the tracks. But I've never been real happy with the G's reverb patches. Back in my Portastudio days I had a rackmount Alesis Quadraverb and I thought it had just beautiful, useable reverbs. I've always thought that the G's reverbs were somewhat lacking.

There are plenty of parameters in each reverb patch to tweak but I don't really understand them and have never been patient enough to sit and do lengthy experimenting.

So my question to you gents is: does anyone have any favorite tweaked aw16g reverb patches set up? "Tweaked" as in improvements to the factory pre-sets that you have found to be more useful? If that is the case would you be willing to share your new, improved pre-sets?

My understanding is that the 1600 and the G are basically identical in such things so improved 1600 reverb patches would also be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Randy

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:58 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3738
Machine type: AW2400
I like using plate verb for vocals. I rarely insert the verb on the track. I utilize the send/return bus usually. Even if the verb is being used on a single track. On the 2400, I can control the return level using a fader. On the G and 1600, the return levels are set on the EFF parameter page, if memory serves me correctly. I will get my 1600 out of its box to have another look, as it is put away right now.

with verbs, "less" is a concept to keep in mind. A little goes a long way. You can copy a (vocal) track and use the one copy dry and then send the other copy through the verb bus, setting the send for the copied vox track to pre-fader. Pull that fader all the way down so there will be no dry signal from that copy. The only thing you then get is the return from the bus. Tweak the return setting on the parameter page, and also the send level from the tracks dial on the bus page, until you like the blend and how it suits your goals.

I think there are High/Low Pass filters that control what actually is sent from the bus to the verb. if you filter out the low stuff the verb will assume a characteristic different than if you leave the lows in but filter out the highs. I believe there are pan controls too??? Those change the texture too.

I am working from memory here so I will have to look again, but if there is a control dealing with Early Reflections, that helps with placement of a vocal too. The more ER there is, the "closer" your vocal will feel. There is an ER patch on the 1600 EFF library. (Not there on the 2400!) You could apply that patch to the first, "dry" copy and then use the verb on copy 2 as i described above. that would use up both EFF buses, so a bounce to create a vocal stem, so as to free up those EFF buses for further purpose may be a good strategy to think about.

I have sometimes made three copies of a vox, so as to leave the one copy dry and down the middle. The other copies get panned LR and those get treated with what you (gently) throw at them. I have experimented with pitch shifting the copies by 2 0r 3 cents, one up one down and /or time shifting them so they run behind the center dry track by a few ms. ( The easiest way is to insert the chosen number of ms at the head of the track, rather than trying to set up an EFF delay. Make a note to remember what you inserted as you may need to reset that when your purpose and results becomes clearer as the mix develops.)

I will pull my 1600 out of retirement and have a look. good excuse to give that machine a workout.!!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:56 am 
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Tinhorn

Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 268
Favourite food: Jägerschnitzel
Machine type: AW16G
Byron,

I will investigate the Early Reflection values. I like plate reverb too, but I think it is the "as-is" settings of the various aw16g reverbs that failed to satisfy. I have used "Hall" mostly. I always apply reverb to dry, recorded tracks when I mix, never when I record as an insert.

I don't understand the pre-fader/post-fader difference. Of course, setting up a solo vocal and then manipulating all of the parameters would be a good way to learn how to "dial it in", but that makes too much sense! I guess that's why I utilize the G's various f/x presets and tweak them slightly to taste. I just don't know how to tweak all of those verb parameters to get what I want.

What settings (vocals especially) do you recommend for plate reverb?

Thanks, Randy

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:08 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3738
Machine type: AW2400
[/u]
urbando1 wrote:

I don't understand the pre-fader/post-fader difference. Of course, setting up a solo vocal and then manipulating all of the parameters would be a good way to learn how to "dial it in", but that makes too much sense! I guess that's why I utilize the G's various f/x presets and tweak them slightly to taste. I just don't know how to tweak all of those verb parameters to get what I want.

What settings (vocals especially) do you recommend for plate reverb?

Thanks, Randy


I will look at the Plate settings specifically and comment upon that in another post. As to the pre/post fader setting ...

Pre fader takes the send to the EFF from before the track's level control, (which is the fader) at the end of the signal chain. If you send (the default) post-fader to an EFF bus then the amount of signal to the EFF bus is modulated by the placement of the track's fader. So for eg if you decide to increase 0r decrease the volume level of a vox track, you are then also sending more or less signal to the EFF bus, from that track. If you think that the "more vox" makes the verb sound like "too much", then you have to go to the screen showing all the little virtual dials and dial down the send for that vox track. If you are using that bus to EFF (verb in many cases) for several tracks, along with the vox track, that upsets the balance you carefully set up between those tracks that are assigned to the bus. so you may tend to start dialing those tracks to find the sweet spot you had before you adjusted that vox track.

But if you set the send from the vox (copy 2), as pre fader, then an unmodulated signal goes to the EFF bus. (ie the whole signal) So, with two copies of a track, copy 1 can be sent to the stereo mix completely dry (ie none sent to the EFF). the second copy, set to pre fader for that track's EFF send, can have its fader pulled right down, so no dry signal goes to the mix from that copy. But the full bore pre-fader signal is still going to the EFF. So if that is "too much" you can then compensate by adding more dry signal to the mix by moving the fader for that second copy up. Now you have copy 1 dry, with copy 2 augmenting that dry quality ( which may help getting your vox to sit well forward in the mix, without affecting the balance of (verb) levels you set within the EFF bus). Clear as mud eh???

Essentially, you are playing with the dry/wet balance for the target track without messing with other tracks' send-dials (ie. readjusting them to match the changes you are attempting for the vox). It is not a magic bullet, but it does change the strategy of using an EFF. In my example you are able to use the fader of copy 2 of the vox to fine tune that sweet spot for the wet/dry level, much as would be if you permanently set wet/dry ratio when inserting the EFF to an input and so print the EFF to a track ( but then you are committed to that amount forever). If you are using an EFF bus on more than the vox, those levels, as well as the overall bus send level stays constant as you add in some dry signal from vox (copy two) while (perhaps) lessening copy one's level, looking for a sweet spot.

It is An alternate method really, to the achieve the same end. Once you get close, the EFF send level of the bus (to the mix) can be adjusted to fine tune how the whole thing sits. on the G that EFF send level is on a screen. On the 2400 it is from a fader, so it is more quick and convenient to adjust the overall send level on the 2400 without going to another screen. But the process is the same on the G, utilizing that screen to adjust EFF send level.

It is quite straight-forward if you are using the EFF bus for only that second copy of the (vox) track. Without other tracks utilizing that EFF, the method I describe is a simple way to use your faders to find wet/dry levels that suit, as the verb no longer depends on a send that is affected by the fader position of the (copy 1) vox . Also handy with using other types of delays, particularly if they are synched to the tempo.

Hope I haven't confused you !!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:56 pm 
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Tinhorn

Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 268
Favourite food: Jägerschnitzel
Machine type: AW16G
Byron wrote:

Hope I haven't confused you !!


Ha ha! Confusion is my middle name when it comes to Yamaha.

I will have to experiment with the pre/post fader control. Thanks, Byron!

Randy

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