The DijonStock Digital Home Recording Support Forum

*** USER REGISTRATION DISABLED! FOR ACCESS TO THE BOARD, MAIL TO registration AT dijonstock DOT com. THANK YOU ***
It is currently Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:05 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:03 pm 
Offline
City Slicker

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:03 pm
Posts: 44
I am almost convinced there is something wrong with my AW1600, having spent quite a while tidying up and recording some new tracks. Everything has sounded fine when monitoring and then when I have got to recording the final mix, two of the channels are not recording to the stereo track. I have tried all sorts of tests, if I record a small section using the repeat A and B points it seems to work ok then when I try again to do the full track then the same two tracks are missing! I have checked the signal routing and I don’t think there is a break in the route to the ST channel. Anyway don’t go racking your brains to much but has anyone else reported this problem before, or do you have any suggestions What it might be? Ps I have done a factory reset a month or so ago but I do still suspect that the machine is not behaving properly


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:04 am 
Offline
Robbie The Botkiller
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:46 pm
Posts: 5399
Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
Machine type: AW16G
Have you loaded "initial data"? (scene button) It will set near every setting flat. Helped me on occasion. You will have to re-engage the sliders again after thatm but that's no hassle.

_________________

Don't judge the coffee by its cup.
The proof of the cheese is in the eating


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:18 am 
Offline
City Slicker

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:03 pm
Posts: 44
Hi Robbie, thanks for reply, no I haven’t tried that yet, I will take a look tomorrow, I ran out of time today but I also got the idea of setting up a new song and then importing the individual tracks into the new song to see if that clears it, have concluded this yet though. when you say re engage the sliders do you mean using the view sliders rather than physical or both, sometimes I am still confused by the sliders, I never know whether or not I am doing the right thing, so I tend to do the physical ones mostly. I have noticed that channel 2 fader in the view section, seems to go up and down on its own, beats me, do you know what causes this?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:09 am 
Offline
Robbie The Botkiller
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:46 pm
Posts: 5399
Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
Machine type: AW16G
The sliders first and foremost have a logical value. You can look that value up using the view (?) button. When the physical slider is moved and passes the value of the logical slider it picks it up and the logical value will move along with the physical fader. One way to disengage this connection is to load a scene that has a fader value that differs from the physical value. If you want the physical fader to control the logical value you'll have to pick it up moving the physical fader passing the logical value. Loading "initial data" will pull all faders down (the logical value). A good way to re-engage is to pull all faders completely down, and then push them all up. And then down again to the desired value. Using this procedure you are certain that the physical value passed the logical value at least once.

A fader going up and down in the view section is most likely to be caused by scenes in the tempo map. The tempo map is a timeline where you pinpoint the activation of pre-defined scenes. That means that a lot of settings are changed automatically in real time. That includes the faders. So, the physical faders not being motorised, they will stay where they are, but the view section will show you the logical value which may be changed by any scene during playback.

If you have activated "initial data" (nearly) all settings will be flat. Riding the faders will reconnect them, but playing a song that has a tempo map with scenes will change the logical settings again.

I hope this helps. :-)

_________________

Don't judge the coffee by its cup.
The proof of the cheese is in the eating


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:11 am 
Offline
Robbie The Botkiller
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:46 pm
Posts: 5399
Location: Netherlands
Favourite food: Ria's cheesecake
Machine type: AW16G
Oh nearly forgot... one of the settings that does NOT change loading initial data is the pitch control. You can change the recording and playback speed by a maximum of 6% (one semitone). That will stay as you set it, even after loading initial data. Fooled me once (and twice, but I won't be talking about that).

_________________

Don't judge the coffee by its cup.
The proof of the cheese is in the eating


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:53 am 
Offline
City Slicker

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:03 pm
Posts: 44
thanks for info Robbie, just for your info I spent ages, probably too long, trying to isolate the problem which in this case was track 5 , (and I also copied the same data to track 1 for a stereo image). I created a new song and then imported the channels from the song I was working on. On testing it I still had the same issue I.e both tracks 1 and five were fine during normal playback but as soon as I recorded to the ST track then they disappeared, the strange thing is That they did record to the ST further along, this maybe because I originally recorded probably in two Separate takes, anyway problem still there.
Next I went back to the earlier version of the song on my computer and reloaded it on to the recorder, did a quick test without adjusting anything and recorded successfully to the ST. Next I created another new song and imported the tracks from the original song I had just loaded from my computer, I guess this is what you might call a belt and braces version. It then took me a bit of time making sure I had got all the Eq and dynamics read across but so far so good. It means I have got a bit of editing to do again but hopefully it will be ok. All is not lost as I have learned a lot from it, thank you for your help and patience


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:35 am 
Offline
Marker Magician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3643
Machine type: AW2400
Your problem is not unique to you. If you search on this forum with "disappearing track" as the key words you will find discussion of this.

_________________
Byron


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:28 am 
Offline
City Slicker

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:03 pm
Posts: 44
Thanks Byron, I have now read some of the previous issues and it looks like the common thread is having done numerous edits on the tracks, which then ties in with the fact that I have been doing a fair bit of editing. Would you suggest that the preventative measures would be to a) save very frequently while working on a song and b) optimising frequently?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:40 am 
Offline
City Slicker

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:03 pm
Posts: 44
Hi Robbie, I don’t think I have done much with a tempo map previously although at one time I was playing around with the quick loop sampler, so I guess there may be a gremlin in there somewhere, so how would I go about safeguarding against this? Is there a way of deleting any tempo maps that may be lying within a current song?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:31 pm 
Offline
Marker Magician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3643
Machine type: AW2400
Tempo maps i do believe are embedded in the song (project) unlike other global settings such as EQ and DYN and EFF. I will bench test this but i am pretty sure the Tempo and therefore the Tempo Map change as you load a new project.

I am not sure about what exactly upsets the cart re edits, but I do believe that there is in which the difficulties lie.

Saving frequently is good habit. I have worked around this problem a few times but would have to go back and review what i did at that time. I think that perhaps keeping a slower work pace may be part of it. You will see as projects grow the machine will sometimes give a disc busy message intermittently. Making sure this message has come and gone before setting markers , in , out points may be a good habit to keep an eye on too. I would not avoid editing or punch ins though. One thing that can be done is to copy a good track to a virtual before an editing session begins and then work upon the copy ??? This is a guess right now as markers etc are not really part of the virtual, but rather the project. I would have to wait until the gremlin appears here on my machine again. since it may still be happening on your machine, and if you have a track with an earlier version on a previous virtual that you know worked worked-- load that virtual and do a mix down. (Doesn't matter if the virtual is good for the song as you want it) then observe if the drop outs occur at the same points as happens on the virtual you actually want. that would confirm a few things.

_________________
Byron


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:36 pm 
Offline
City Slicker

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:03 pm
Posts: 44
Thanks Byron, yes I agree. I perhaps should have also explained that whilst in lockdown I have been trying to sort out numerous projects to decide whether to bin them or finish off with minimum effort and trying not to re do parts, that is still the plan, but that gremlin has probably cost me the best part of a week but not all lost as I have learned a few things.
BTW I am afraid after all my efforts It didn’t work, I thought at one time I had solved it but no, the problem is still there. It was part of a guitar section that I really liked the sound of so I am going to re record it and hope I can get the same feel etc, it shouldn’t be too difficult, thanks for your interest.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:54 pm 
Offline
Marker Magician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3643
Machine type: AW2400
One work around i recall using was a start stop during the mixdown. You know where the drop out occurs.. If I recall correctly in my case, the drop out reappears after the transport is stopped and then resumed ??? If this is so, perhaps a stop of the mix down just before the drop out is about to occur, then restart the mix down to continue. Not a good habit, I agree, to interrupt a mix down but the result seems not to exhibit an audible glitch . I have used this method to redo a fade out at the end for sure, and i do believe i got around a disappearing track in this way too. Give it a go and see what result you get. If you are trying to preserve old work, rather than redo ( or discard) a project, some McGivering may be the ticket.

_________________
Byron


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:53 am 
Offline
City Slicker

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:03 pm
Posts: 44
Thanks Byron I will bear it in mind, I tried re doing tracks yesterday but they didn’t really sound the same, then I got the idea of using the sampler so I recorded one half of the glitch area onto the sampler and it worked when mixing down to the ST. Then I found that I didn’t have enough memory to do
the second glitch area so I have programmed the pad to play both the same sections twice as it is basically the same sort of riff. Just got to figure out if I can adjust the pad volume in the mix. Also it has just made we wonder if the second part might work beyond the glitch so to speak. Again I have spent too long on this but it is interesting and not entirely wasted, thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:32 pm 
Offline
Marker Magician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3643
Machine type: AW2400
Yes the pads do have a limited memory capacity. but they are very handy for doing as you discovered - that is flying in a lick that is repeated within the song. It is certainly possible to adjust Pad volume. Do you use the fader flip ?? I'd have to check. been a while since I used the pads in this way.

Too bad you have encountered this issue. I have been there a couple of times, but that is within hundreds of hours of tracking and editing. So hope you don't give up!!

_________________
Byron


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:12 am 
Offline
City Slicker

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:03 pm
Posts: 44
yes I saw one of your posts on the forum and used the fader flip, worked a treat thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:38 am 
Offline
Marker Magician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3643
Machine type: AW2400
Have you tried that "stop then restart" during mix down, which seems to make the segment that has been disappearing, reappear ?? That has been my experience, seldom though has it occurred. That is not unique to mixdown. the stop / start phenom where the muted material reappears happens during a regular play back too, in my experience. Is that true of your situation?

_________________
Byron


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:35 am 
Offline
City Slicker

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:03 pm
Posts: 44
Hi Byron I haven’t tried it as I don’t know how too. So how can you stop and start during mix down in real time? I will give you the exact symptoms of the suspected gremlin.
1) It is associated on one guitar track
2) Within the track there are two sections of a guitar riff, that I probably did in various takes, but too long ago to recall, but it is probable that I did the two riffs in one continuous take, if you see what I mean. After the two guitar riffs there is a short solo guitar at the end of the song.That solo was probably done in a separate take.
3) When monitoring for mix down, everything sounds ok.
4) When recording to ST and then monitoring The playback the section containing the two guitar riffs has not been recorded to the ST, but the solo part does appear.
5) So in summary it would appear that one section (Containing the two guitar riffs) trips out of the recording but then comes back in again for the second part.
As I mentioned in earlier posts I have tried all sorts of combinations, to get it back , but none have worked, too many to mention, you should see my notepad, people would think I am like a mad professor, no offence to professors. Thanks again


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:45 pm 
Offline
Marker Magician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3643
Machine type: AW2400
Thanks for the description. In cases where i have encountered such a drop out, it has occurred during the song. ie the track is playing as it should, then it drops out for a section that was an edited portion, then the track returns as it should sound. I discovered that if the machine was stopped during the drop out >> then restarted again from that point, the disappeared track returned. But, just for that pass. Next time the same disappearance happened again, but again the missing data would reappear with the stop/start. so i used that phenomena to achieve a mix down. this dropout occurred during regular playback and also during a mix down recording.

Your description sounds not quite the same. If i read you correctly you say the data is heard as it should be during your mix down (and regular playback?). then when you listen back to the recording the part in question just is not there? Is that true? It sounds good always, except on the recorded version of a mix down? You don't sense it happening during the playback or during mix record, but find the part to be missing on the created stereo track upon playback of that stereo track??

If that is so, you could send the track in question out via an aux out and re record it. ??

Have you exported the track, in its entirety, via USB (Transport Folder) and observed the track in an editor on your PC?

I don't mind if continue searching for a solution. Love a mystery!! Let me know what you discover.

As far as stop start during mix down. I mean - when in mix down mode and the recorder is in action > press stop, then press start/record from the same point. Intuitively that sounds as if not a good idea, but my experience is that there is no audible glitch that appears upon playback. But that stop/restart did cause the missing section to reappear as the recording continued. If i recall this happened only twice during my projects, as described. but knowledge of there being no audible glitch from such, I have used to redo fade outs at the end of mixes when I was happy with the mix overall but not with my real time fader-riding fade out, for e.g.

_________________
Byron


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:15 pm 
Offline
City Slicker

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:03 pm
Posts: 44
Hi Byron, thanks again for your interest, yes your understanding of the problem is correct so it is not quite the same as some of your previous experiences. I am willing to try the send and return although I am not over experienced in this area, I don’t know if you would have the time to send a short procedure, if not I will be able to work it out eventually, the only thing is when I have copied the track to another track, the glitch still gets copied so it is not channel specific, so would that not be the same with using send and return if recording to another track? Apologies if I am not understanding properly. Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:17 pm 
Offline
City Slicker

Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:03 pm
Posts: 44
Ps no haven’t looked at transporting it to PC editor


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group