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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:30 am 
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:)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:19 pm 
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:D


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:14 pm 
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Congrats, I think... need to hear more of the pros and cons from the folks across the pond... :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:08 pm 
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I'm still waiting for WW3 and/or a plague of locusts and/or the end of Western civilisation, but it's not happened yet.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:08 pm 
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cda wrote:
I'm still waiting for WW3 and/or a plague of locusts and/or the end of Western civilisation, but it's not happened yet.


I know...it got to be really cringing listening to the ridiculous scare stories, on both sides to be fair, but for god`s sake these are supposed to be intelligent people.
And as for these loonies campaigning to have the decision reversed #-o and calling for another referendum #-o #-o
Personally I like what Nigel Farage had to say, "It`s not the best of three" :lol:
Enjoy your day.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:34 pm 
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bokchoy wrote:
Congrats, I think... need to hear more of the pros and cons from the folks across the pond... :)


Hi Bok, the only downside I can think of is I might have to pay for a visa to travel, like I do to Turkey :)
The pro`s I believe far outweigh the con`s.
More money being spent on health, more on public services, more on training like going back to having kids from schools going into apprenticeships, more manufacturing (something that has been decimated over the last two or three parliaments), the
powers that be are paying the price for only being concerned with huge money making companies in the capital, and ignoring the rest of the U.K. apart from the occasional kick in the b****cks.
As far as immigration is concerned, I don`t have a problem with anyone coming here from anywhere, as long as it`s controlled, any other way does`nt make sense to me, especially with the upside world we live in now, and I think that`s what most people in their hearts know is the correct way, it`s just that everyone is terrified of being called and labelled a racist, mind boggling.
Anyway my rant for the day is over :)
Enjoy your day Bok.

T.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:19 pm 
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T.Mac. wrote:
cda wrote:
I'm still waiting for WW3 and/or a plague of locusts and/or the end of Western civilisation, but it's not happened yet.


I know...it got to be really cringing listening to the ridiculous scare stories, on both sides to be fair, but for god`s sake these are supposed to be intelligent people.
And as for these loonies campaigning to have the decision reversed #-o and calling for another referendum #-o #-o
Personally I like what Nigel Farage had to say, "It`s not the best of three" :lol:
Enjoy your day.

T.


It was like watching school children arguing in the playground at times. Ridiculous! Should the referendum result be overturned, I fear for the stability of the country.

C.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:46 pm 
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I'm not normally one to talk politics on a music forum, but I will make a couple of comments in the interest of balance if I may. I particularly want to give an alternative view, as I know that there are forum members from various European countries - and I personally want those people to know that opinion in the UK on the outcome of the referendum on our membership of the European Union is very divided. 'Happy Independence Day' is not a sentiment that is universally shared across my country.

It is important, that whilst democracy needs to be respected, the outcome of the referendum was far from a decisive and clear-cut victory for the 'Leave' side. Just under half of the people that voted (48%), including myself, voted to 'Remain' part of the European Union. Therefore, we now have a situation where we have a very divided country and society. Friends and families are divided, communities are divided, towns and villages are divided. There was also a broad generational divide in the way people voted, with higher percentages of younger people voting to 'Remain', while amongst older generations, a higher proportion voted to 'Leave'. In addition to those divides, the separate countries that make up the United Kingdom are very clearly divided, with a majority in England and Wales having voted to 'Leave' and a majority in Northern Ireland and Scotland voting to 'Remain'. The picture is very complex.

I don't think our country is in a very good place at all if I am completely honest. My gut feeling, and this really is just my personal opinion, is that by having this referendum, we will end up with a scenario in a number of years' time, where both 'Remain' voters and 'Leave' voters are losers. Neither side will really get what they want and what they voted for, and the country will have been severely damaged politically, economically, socially, and diplomatically in the process.

Very many people, like myself, feel genuinely and passionately upset and concerned and with the outcome of the referendum and importantly, the campaign that led to it. 48% of UK voters believed that whatever faults the European Union might have - the principles of friendship, collaboration, integration and working for the wider common good with our European friends, neighbours and allies is very important and should be valued, not ended. It upsets me that my European friends and colleagues might perceive my country as rejecting them and that they may now see (whether rightly or wrongly) the UK as an arrogant country that has chosen to isolate itself from its neighbours because it thinks it can 'do better' without them. That is not something that I am comfortable with.

I would also like to point out that it started to become clear, very quickly after the outcome of the vote, that much of what had been used to convince people to vote 'Leave', was either dangerously decisive, misleading at best or downright lies at worst, or just plain unrealistic/unachievable. So many promises were made to the people that voted to 'Leave', that within hours were reneged upon, or have subsequently been denied or retracted by the politicians or are starting to completely unravel.

A month since the result, we now have a situation where the UK Government (a massive majority of whom actually wanted to 'Remain') has to try and deliver the will of the people and negotiate things that were promised to those people, that it is not at all in their power to be able to achieve. Our Government has to negotiate with 27 other EU member states and try to get the best possible deal it can for the UK. It is my view that the UK population were promised that if they voted to leave the European Union, they could have their cake AND they could eat it. I suspect that our Prime Minister (and the three other key Ministers) are going to very quickly discover that the 27 members states of the European Union will decide how much cake we get to eat. That is just a fact of life and a fact of negotiation and diplomacy - the UK will not get everything it wants. Therefore, I fear 'Leave' voters are going to feel cheated and like they have been lied to by politicians. In my view it is slightly arrogant to think that the UK can have everything it wants. We need to be realistic about what is achievable. I do not believe that one can decide to stop paying your membership fees to an exclusive club, and expect to continue to enjoy all of the benefits of that exclusive club for free. The other members of the club won't allow it. I wouldn't allow it if I was them.

The early signs are that the UK's economy, as predicted by the Independent Bank of England and virtually every other reputable economist and financial institution around the world, is going to suffer. There have been accusations that this was simply scare tactics and a campaign of fear by the 'Remain' side, but the damage to the UK economy is starting to materialise (news just in today for example…..http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36864273). Our currency has already taken a massive hit. It is starting to look increasingly likely (as was entirely predictable) that control of immigration (which was one of the key drivers/demands for 'Leave' voters) will not be possible/negotiable if we are to retain full access to the single market, which we so desperately need for a stable and growing economy.

However, what upsets and concerns me most is the division and tension within UK society as a result of this referendum. Racist incidents and hate crimes within UK society have massively increased within the last month. Anti-foreign/anti-immigrant feelings are rife. It is appalling and shocking and to me it is shameful. Rather than having real progress in our society, we have stepped back 30 or 40 years in terms of race relations, equality, inclusion and diversity. Of course not everyone that voted to leave the EU is a racist. That is a ridiculous notion. I'm sure most are entirely decent people, with legitimate views and concerns about population growth, immigration and the effect on public services . But the big worry for our society, is that the result of the referendum has emboldened and legitimised those awful people who do have racist views. Racism is on the rise because racists now 'think' that the majority of the population of the UK share their awful views. This is what really concerns me…..

Rather than type out the story again, I'll cut and paste a post I put on my Facebook page 4 days after the referendum result....

"Presumably everyone has been reading about all these horrific examples of racism which people have been witnessing all over the country over the last couple of days.

I'm really sad to say I have got another one to report.

I spoke to my Mother on the telephone at lunchtime today. This morning she was in her front garden, weeding her flowerbeds when she got into conversation over the garden fence with a builder working on the house next door. It seems that the issue of the referendum and immigration came up in conversation and then turned to the problem of refugees sneaking on to lorries at Calais in France to enter the UK illegally. The guy suggested to my Mother that the solution to the problem might be to let them get into the back of the lorries, lock them in, drive away and then gas them to death like the Nazis did to the Jews.

My Mother told me that she was so shocked and horrified that she very quickly walked back into her house. However after recovering from the initial shock, she realised she could not let something like that pass and so returned outside to confront the man. She told me she tried to be as calm as possible and told the man in no uncertain terms exactly what she thought of his disgusting views and how utterly unacceptable they were. My Mother is a 72 year old pensioner and is 5 feet tall.

I have never felt so ashamed of what is happening in my country, but so proud of my Mum. I love you Mum. You are more British than some disgusting, ignorant, racist tosser could ever dream of being. I hope we can all be like my Mum if we have to be."


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:46 am 
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Hi Alex.
I agree with a lot of what you say, but...politicians on both sides lied.
I voted to leave because I believe uncontrolled (and that's the key word) uncontrolled migration is wrong.
I'm not a racist, in any way shape or form, I've said it before on the forum and ill say it again, I believe everyone should be able to be, do and say what they want as long as their not harming anyone else.
Migration is good for all countries, especially us as weve been built on it, but its been allowed to get out of control and in its present state, it's failing not just the British citizen but also the people that wish to come here.
Now as for these people that are running around abusing others they believe shouldn't be here, well they shouldn't be here, get rid of them, they are halfwits that don't deserve to be allowed out of whatever asylum they escaped from.
At the end of the day, and this was meant to be the whole point of my original post, the politicians have let the country down, they didn't listen like they never do, behaved like schoolchildren as CDA said, scare tactics on both sides have made them look ridiculous and dangerous.
Run a country ? I wouldn't trust them to run a bath !!
Enjoy the rest of your day mate.

T.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:44 pm 
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Hi T.Mac

We have been let down by politicians.

We'll agree to agree on some things and disagree on others.

You have a good day too.

Cheers

Alex


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:21 pm 
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T.Mac. wrote:
Now as for these people that are running around abusing others they believe shouldn't be here, well they shouldn't be here, get rid of them, they are halfwits that don't deserve to be allowed out of whatever asylum they escaped from.

T.


Just to clarify Alex, because things sometimes are written and taken badly,
"these people" I`m talking about that should`nt be here are the idiot Britishers who are causing trouble, not anyone else, :)
I just re-read it and thought that does`nt seem to have come out the way I meant, :lol:
Enjoy your day.

T.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:07 pm 
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No worries T.Mac. I read it the way you meant it.

All the best

Cheers

Alex


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:38 pm 
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Thank you for the dialog boys!!

You are both individuals for whom I have great respect, both for the music you produce and share here, and also for the candid and thoughtful and respectful conversation and sharing of ideas and viewpoint. As for this happening on a music forum --I am sure it is all fodder for even more music and composition!!

We here in Canada look to Britain because of our heritage and the parliamentary system we share, influencing our world view and practical/pragmatic governance. But we live beside a rather large elephant that appears to be preparing to "roll over".. So our future is more uncertain too. It is not surprising that an often mentioned point during the recent Republican Convention, naming Trump as the Republican candidate, was to hold the British vote up as example of how a people expressed their desire to be independent and "free" to become more radical in the expression of protectionist trade and immigration policy.. So, in Canada we must wait and see how this all plays out because for certain we are not immune to the major consequences of Britain leaving the EU and the United State's decision this coming November.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:36 am 
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Hi Byron

I hope you are keeping well.

Yes indeed - decisions in 2016 on both sides of the Atlantic are going to have far reaching impacts and implications aren't they. That is for sure!!

All the best

Alex

PS - on a happier/musical note - I ran into one of your countrymen a couple of months ago - my band played a show with a fantastic musician and wonderful guy from Alberta, called Leeroy Stagger. We played together several times a couple of years back and share a record label here in the UK. Do you know his music? I have absolutely loved his records for several years now. It is kind of rootsy-blue collar rock with a slight country rock vibe in a Steve Earle sort of way. Worth checking out if you don't know him and like that kind of thing. Anyway, I was chatting to him and he told me about the new recording studio he has just built at his property in a town called Lethbridge, Alberta. He showed me some photos and I was VERY jealous indeed. It looks like an amazing place. Ha ha - we were drunk and I promised that I would go and make a record there one day!!! Anyway, check out some of the photos on his Facebook page. It is called the Rebeltone Ranch.

https://www.facebook.com/The-Rebeltone-Ranch-311415538877854/


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:09 pm 
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Thanks, I will look the guy up.

I don't live near Lethbridge, but if you come to make that record, and land in Toronto, then my place is on the way. First night here, then about 3 days of driving to
Lethbridge - this is a BIG country!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:18 pm 
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Ha ha. A big country indeed!!

Let me know if he is to your taste.

Cheers

Alex


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:06 pm 
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Hi folks. Just wanted to thank you for expressing your views on this issue. I enjoy hearing those who are "there" respectfully talk about something that I can only read about from the other side of the pond. For what it's worth (not much, I know) the media in the US generally characterized the result in much the same way as a quote from this thread:


alexeltonwall wrote:
the country will have been severely damaged politically, economically, socially, and diplomatically in the process.[/i]



While it remains to be seen, I personally expect that nobody will be happy in the long run with the decision to leave the EU - those who voted to leave won't get what they expected and those who voted to stay will lose what they hoped to keep. Heading into the vote, I would've been a "remain" voter. Just a marginally informed opinion from afar, mind you. :wink:

As you all have pointed out, we have our own issues (and an increasingly divided population) here in the States. I can't wait for the election in November. :?

Good luck to us all...


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:28 pm 
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Hi JM

Indeed - I think we all need some luck! :(

It seems to me that there are clear parallels between the tone, language and messages used in the political campaigns on both sides of the Atlantic........"Let's take back CONTROL", "Lets make (insert name of country) GREAT again", "We will STOP immigration", "We will STOP crime, and we will make (insert name of country) SECURE again", "WE WILL MAKE (insert name of country) GREAT AGAIN".

In my view these things are very easy to say, but will be very hard to do.

Cheers

Alex


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:00 pm 
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Yeah they use that kind of talk to try and get some momentum going. It's obvious they can't do most of what they say but it stirs and kind of inspires people to feel good about themselves and their country, takes their minds off the mess the politicians have made of everything.

T.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:11 pm 
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Ha ha. Agreed T.Mac! :)


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