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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 12:57 am 
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Dude

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:39 pm
Posts: 27
Location: California
Favourite food: Spicy
Machine type: AW16G
Decided to blow off the dust and get back to recording with some old but great equipment... you know, that little grey box called the AW16G.

I ran into a problem I had not notice in the past: The monitor outputs are labeled different ways in the manual:

I noticed that the AW16G manual states the following:

(pg 21)---Monitor out Jack, 1/4" phone output Jack (unbalanced).

(pg 212)--- Monitor out L,R (unbalanced, TRS, phone jack).

(pg 218, Block Diagram)---Monitor out show symbols for 1/4" TS unbalanced).



My question is if the monitor outs are "TRS unbalanced" or "TS unbalanced."
This makes a huge difference connecting the AW16G to my monitors which are a pair of KRK V8 series II to minimize hum, ground loops, extraneous noise.

http://www.krksys.com/documents/V-series2_manual.pdf

In the manual for my monitors (see manual link above) it states at the bottom of page 4 that "if using an unbalanced connection make sure and wire PIN 1 and PIN 3 at the source end" (which happens to be the AW16G).

It appears that the AW16G monitor outputs are unbalanced, but is it a TS or TRS connector? Yamaha may have made a mistake in labeling these out puts properly in the manual.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Cheers.

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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 1:00 am 
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Spaminator Extraordinaire
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Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:58 pm
Posts: 8110
Favourite food: sushi
Machine type: AW2400
I have the KRKs and have them plugged in monitor. I think unbalanced is fine for short runs.

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GSMUSIC: Hey RZ, Im not no upper class american, the gear I own is what I have special to me. My car sucks, my house sucks, my nieghborhood sucks. Does yours RZ? Does it?

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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 1:10 am 
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Dude

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:39 pm
Posts: 27
Location: California
Favourite food: Spicy
Machine type: AW16G
RZ wrote:
I have the KRKs and have them plugged in monitor. I think unbalanced is fine for short runs.


But are the out puts on the AW16G TS or TRS? In the AW16G manual the monitor outputs are listed as TS Unbalanced and TRS unbalanced. I would like to know which one is it.

Did you cross-couple the ring and shield pins together on the cable at the AW16G monitor outputs?

Cheers.

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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 1:12 am 
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Spaminator Extraordinaire
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Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:58 pm
Posts: 8110
Favourite food: sushi
Machine type: AW2400
Been a long time so I don't recall the back of the 16G. I can tell you that I did no mods.

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GSMUSIC: Hey RZ, Im not no upper class american, the gear I own is what I have special to me. My car sucks, my house sucks, my nieghborhood sucks. Does yours RZ? Does it?

rz-land


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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 2:22 am 
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Marker Magician
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Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:20 pm
Posts: 3364
Machine type: AW2400
If it is not broke don't fix ix it. Use unbalanced cabled and keep the run short and if there a re no issues -- good to go.

All my cabling is unbalanced and I have no issues. Not to say that your rig may suffer from some ground loop happenings, but --- hopefully not.

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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 3:21 am 
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Dude

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:39 pm
Posts: 27
Location: California
Favourite food: Spicy
Machine type: AW16G
Byron wrote:
If it is not broke don't fix ix it. Use unbalanced cabled and keep the run short and if there a re no issues -- good to go.

All my cabling is unbalanced and I have no issues. Not to say that your rig may suffer from some ground loop happenings, but --- hopefully not.


I agree, if it is not broke... but with that being said, I have a slight hiss and hum
that is annoying me... Gound loops, grounding issues?...undetermined, but I will press on to resolve the issue.

I also agree with the suggestion of using unbalanced cables, short of course; however, the issue with that is my monitors have balanced inputs.

Since my OCD will not rest until an answer is found, I am going to probe the AW16G monitor outputs tomorrow to determine if it is TS or TRS. As a last resort I will call Yamaha.

Below is a link to the industry standard with regards to balanced cables and proper equipment grounding (although I'm sure this has been posted somewhere on this site).:

'http://www.rane.com/note110.html

Thanks and Cheers.

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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 3:58 pm 
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Tinhorn

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:50 am
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Using TRS for unbalanced MONO signals would be nonsense IMO. TRS unbalanced is for STEREO L/R (phones) only.

Monitor out = 2 x TS.


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 7:42 am 
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Dude

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:39 pm
Posts: 27
Location: California
Favourite food: Spicy
Machine type: AW16G
dejan wrote:
Using TRS for unbalanced MONO signals would be nonsense IMO. TRS unbalanced is for STEREO L/R (phones) only.

Monitor out = 2 x TS.


The monitor out on the AW16G is TS, however the inputs on my monitors are TRS. I can either D.I. each channel or as tie the tip and sleeve to one another at the AW16G monitor out connectors ( I consider this a last resort, but it is an option). Please feel free to chime in with alternatives.
Cheers.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:30 pm 
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Tinhorn

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:50 am
Posts: 317
Favourite food: overmuramovingcake
obsidian wrote:
dejan wrote:
Using TRS for unbalanced MONO signals would be nonsense IMO. TRS unbalanced is for STEREO L/R (phones) only.

Monitor out = 2 x TS.


The monitor out on the AW16G is TS, however the inputs on my monitors are TRS. I can either D.I. each channel or as tie the tip and sleeve to one another at the AW16G monitor out connectors ( I consider this a last resort, but it is an option). Please feel free to chime in with alternatives.
Cheers.



First - to be clear - I meant 16G part of connection (TRS on page 212 is wrong), haven't read KRK manual until now. But you haven't read it correctly either..:-D (see last page with correct numbers TRS=231)
Why would you tie Tip with Sleeve (=signal to ground)?!

To be correct you would tie Ring with Sleeve (ground), but there's no Ring on G side. If you really want to go this way you would do this with one TRS jack (or XLR), one TS jack and balanced cable in between.

But in reality most people would just use simple mono (unbalanced) cables (R and S will be tied at KRK side). They should be as short as possible with good shield.

If audio cables are very close to mains cables, make 90deg crossings between them if possible.
To avoid ground loops use all power from the same outlet.
Avoid EM fields, clean contacts, check other equipment....


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