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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:17 am 
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Marker Magician
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This is my point >>> .aws files become cluttered with WAV files whose file names are only numbers, and the number sequence seem to bear no relation to any thing intuitive. The AW has an Operatiing System that puts it all together, but ... Finding anything in there is by luck, and you dare not rename the file to more easily indentify, while within the .aws folder, or you will corrupt that folder and will not restore to the AW at a later date. A file coped from that file, should you do that, can be renamed as anything you want.

.aws files are intended for backup of complete projects, not the archiving of specific, individual tracks.

I say again, use the Transport folder to get in and out of the AW with the tracks that you desire.

.aws folder are full of stuff you mostly don't desire (out takes, false starts, multiple takes) and are impossible to systematically search.

Your case is somewhat unique in that the data was copied to your machine from tape, in order to digitize it I presume?. So I can't advise on where any thing might have ended up. Whoever did the data transfer would have had to input from the analog deck, in real time. He must have done that for all the taped data on your archive project from '82 It would have been time consuming,

Again i say, check all the virtuals on all 16 tracks. If and only if your misplaced track is not there would i try to mine the .aws file to locate it. When you find it I can perhaps advise you on how to integrate it, if it matches up.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:10 pm 
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Based on what you're saying, I'm thinking could I already have messed up the .aws file by launching Audacity and using it to access the Audio folder where I located the guitar solo? I did make a copy though but is there a way to verify if the original .aws is now corrupted? Thanks Byron


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:46 pm 
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Marker Magician
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No, no, no. Looking in an .aws file does not corrupt it. Copying a file from a .aws does not corrupt it. Do that as much as you want.

Changing the name that was assigned to a WAV file within is what causes problems. for e.g. if you were to locate the file of a complete take, within an .aws folder, and you wanted to rename it so you could find it later .... that is what would upset the .aws "apple cart". >>> The folder might no longer be useful to restore that project to a AW machine. >>> Future restoration is the primary reason for saving (archiving) .aws files in their Entirety.

If you want specific tracks from within a .aws Song (project). then go about getting the pieces you want by utilizing the Transport Folder. That is best practice.

If you have opened files from within the .aws folder in order to view /listen within Audacity >>> That is not necessarily a bad thing. But if Audacity places extra files within your .aws file, that could be an issue. (I use WavLab and every time you open a WAV in WavLab, then a utility file called a "peak file" is created and placed in the folder from where the WAV came > to be used by WavLab)

If you want to safely do as you want to do, make sure you maintain an undisturbed (unchanged) copy of your .aws file. >> for the future.

You copied your project to your PC after you discovered the USB link and then discovered the two partitions of the AW drive (back at the beginning of this thread). That means you have two copies of that project. One on your PC and one still on the AW.

If you have been opening files to Audacity from the copy of original, residing on the PC, then there is no issue, as you still maintain the original. You can make a new archive copy. If you were opening files to Audacity directly from the original, while you were linked via USB, that is when you are flirting with digital danger. I have not used Audacity enough to know how it interacts with the location folder of its source files. But if it places extra files, as does my WAVLab editor, then that could be an issue.

The bottom line is >>>> don't mess with stuff within an AW .aws folder unless you have a copy of it. And then you should work from the copy on the PC, not the original on the AW.

For important projects you should maintain two identical copies. One on the AW, the other on a storage medium via USB. This is to maintain ability to restore, if necessary. If you get to a point where you delete the project from the AW, then you have the copy to restore to the AW. (Keep in mind that in this example you would be down to the one copy after deleting the project from the AW >> as in all computing you should have backups of your backups of valuable data.)

You have two 1600 machines, right? I would take the .aws folder I copied to PC and drop it in a Song Folder on the other AW, the one that does not have the original file. This should place the Project on that AW. If it does you are golden. If it gives you an error message, get back to me about that.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:47 am 
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Great suggestions and info Byron. I think I understood it correctly all along but just had a thought that when you said "don't mess," somehow I thought maybe I did something wrong. I've been thinking about using my 2nd AW as a back up for songs but I wanted to just one by one copy over each song.

However, the manual has nothing on that. Your suggestion of transferring the .aws file I wouldn't have thought of because my neophyte status. Yes, I'd like to know how to do that as well.

Just today, I bought a new Seagate 4TB external HD for backup purposes. However, all of these HD's can go south over time which makes me think CDr's are the closest we can get to "permanent stroage" backup? I tried last week to back up one AW using CDR's but had to quit after using up 12 of them with no indication from the AW as to how many more it may take. What is the best solution regarding back up to CDR? Thanks Byron.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:19 pm 
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I have very few things backed up on cd.

Whole projects (.aws files) can be copied, through a PC, to an external HD connected for the purpose of archiving. this method of archive is great but is limited to having a suitable AW machine to which to restore the archive. Much of my archiving is in this fashion. I have a second external and occasionally I backup the first backup. Most of my projects are not that important so this is suitable, and when the 2400 quits I will have to say "Oh well". It is not often you go back and call up a previous project, but that said, i have done so many times. Either to work on something left unfinished, or to find a stereo track known to exist but not in the "stereo mix" archive for some reason.

It is always good to keep a separate folder of "finished " mixes too. Use the Transport Folder to move the mixes you want to keep and perhaps utilize later in a playlist, cd etc. Even the not-so-good ones find their way into such a folder too. a good record of accomplishment and workflow.

For important projects that you for sure want to have access in the future, It is best to Export the "current" Tracks to the Transport >> copy to PC >> archive as you see fit.

Look for the 2816 option for backup to CD. Pg 155. That is the best way to economically (space-wise) save important tracks to use later, on any platform you choose, I think. This does not tie you an AW machine. I must admit to not using this option very often. I use the EXPORT >>All method to save just the tracks i ultimately have used within a mix. I outlined this earlier in this thread.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:57 am 
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Hey Byron. Just to up date briefly, only got to try one thing so far of the list of things you suggested in last post. Copied the wav files from external drive to the internal HD on my Korg Kronos. However, got the same ettor message as before" file contains unsupported data." Have company coming in Monday through Thursday so have had to devote today to house cleaning. Just wanted to let you know at least tried copying the files to internal HD. I really thought that would get rid of the error message.Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:53 pm 
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Just to update: After trying to open the wave files, which do not open in my Korg Kronos, I tried what you suggested Byron, starting first with trying to open them in Audacity and they do open in Audacity. However, trying to simply open them on my computer by clicking on the Wave files within the USB inserted in my computer, they don't open. Bottom line they seem to only open in Audacity.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:13 am 
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Wav files do not open on their own. They are data files. Audacity is able to display (and playback as audio) the data. If you want to see if the file in question will open in, for instance, Windows Media Player, then right click on the icon>from the list displayed select Open With> this should display applications that will open the said file > shoose Windows Media.> the audio should play, but you will not see the wav form, as this is not an editor-- but a only a player ...Audacity on the other hand is an audio editing program.

As for the Korg situation I can not speak to that. the error message saying unsupported data is curious. Are you able to see the hard drive of your Korg on the computer ( similar to how you see the AW drives when usb connected)? The manual quote i sent to you seems to have disappeared from this thread ???, but It said that wav files wanting to be imported must first be copied to the Korg HD. It should work because the file is viable ( the Audacity bench-test). My best guess is that the project into which you are trying to import the wav may have different properties than the file. If the Korg project is structured to create and to store data (wav files) as 24 bit files, and the wav you are trying to import is 16 bit, that won't work. Similarily, the Korg can make projectas at both 44.1 and 48 sampling rates. Your wav need be compatible with that too. CD standard is 16 bit , 44.1 megahertz sample rate. There are reasons for working at different bit/sample rates, but that is for another day. First make sure the korg's project and the files properties match.

The AW gets around this issue by only displaying files with in the Transport Folder that match the projects properties. Perhaps the Korg does not do this, instead leaving it to you to select files that will be compatible. ???

I would right click on your source file and go to Properties to determine bit depth and then check the info page of the korg's project structure to check the bit depth. Sample rate too. That is where i would start.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:09 am 
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Thank you Byron. Re: my Korg, just want to clarify that I'm simply trying to open the wav files from my USB flash drive. I copied them from the USB to the internal Korg HD. You mentioned the "project into which I am trying to import the wav may have different properties than the file." However, I'm not even trying to open the wav files into a project; just want to see if they will open at all but continue to get the same error message about "unsupported data." So, essentially, not even getting to first base.

The Audacity wav files open on computer using Windows Media Player. When I right click on those files, to view "Properties," they simply tell me the size in MB (mega Bytes). I don't think that's what you are referring to. I guess I'm in the dark as to how to locate the "bit" size etc you mention.

Re: seeing the Korg HD when USB connected: I have not tried to connect the Korg Kronos to computer via USB. Possibly that's an option however, I would have to read the PDF manual as to the process. So, I'm not sure what the bit rate or sample rate without first knowing how to go about viewing them.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:59 am 
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Have you ever before opened a wav file on the Korg? or is this all first time struggle?

If i have time I will browse the manual to see what i glean. You get better at skimming manuals after you already have figured out how to work it, at first, but then eventually manuals reveal their usefulness.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:15 am 
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Thee very first time for wav files. I thank you for delving into this and for your expertise.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:22 am 
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Well I am learning something too. It seems that windows 7 is different than older versions. In xp and i think vista, when you right click and choose properties and then a tab called summary it will show you the file attributes such as sample size (16 bits per sample or 24 bits per sample) and also the sample rate ( e.g 44.1 khz which is 44100 samples per second). It seems that Windows 7 does not give this info. It does tell you bit rate though -- so FYI -- If it say 705 kbps then that is a 16 bit, mono file, 1411 kbps is a stereo 16 bit file. 1058 kbps is a 24 bit file. double that for a 24 stereo file. Not sure how you'd tell sample rate. I did read there are 3rd party apps to help with this, but i have not used them. I usually work on an old xp machine but now answering this I am on a W7. so when i went to check I was getting it right , i see that W7 is different.

As this relates to your korg, ??? problem. Again I will read the manual when I have a moment tomorrow.

What model of korg do you have so i can access the correct manual?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Thanks Byron. My Korg is a Kronos 2 88 key. The computer I'm now on is an Asus laptop running Windows 8.1. However, also have an HP desktop running XP which is not connected to the internet. I just bought another new HP laptop which is on it's way, bought from QVC. It comes with Windows 10.1 Someone gave me a copy of Windows 7 but I've never installed it. I'm not sure which system I should be running but it sounds like you're saying XP at least lets you view bit rate etc. In 8.1, when I right click it does show properties but then I click on another tab at the top "Details" and it does show bit rate of one of the wav files I'm trying to import to my Korg Kronos. Bit rate 705kbps (kilobytes per second). Then below, lists "size"12.4 MB. Why it doesn't open on the Kronos is still the mystery.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:30 am 
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I will look at the manual. the 705 kbps indicate it is a mono 16 bit file.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:51 am 
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the manual link

http://cdn.korg.com/us/support/download ... AA7HGZGU6Q

See page 208 - 210 ..

I have not read the whole thing of course, but I am guessing that the machine will not OPEN a wav on its own. It has toe be opened as part of a project I think these are .sng files. This would be equivalent to the .aws file on the Yammie. The wav would be imported into that project. I am thinking.

Project are created as either 16 bit or 24 bit. The wav must match that. Your wav file is 16 bit.

I would look in the manual about how to create a .sng Song file.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:30 am 
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Pg 15. what MODE are you using?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:29 pm 
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Dude

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Byron, I was not informed of these posts. I just now read your 8-15 posts. Thank you for this but the link does not work and I'm not sure which Kronos manual PDF you're referencing as pg 208 and 210 are Voice Lists. A You tube video posted below shows the procedure I used to try to "insert" the 16 bit wav file using first the Disk Mode then Song Mode. I don't know what's going on with the manual unless they changed it or maybe you have an older manual from the original Kronos? Anyway, I truly appreciate your help Byron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOMFjOiZ5IE


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:06 pm 
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Dude

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I just received a long awaited reply from Korg support; I emailed them several weeks ago regarding the wav file issue. They are no help at all and just say the file must be corrupt and to re-create it. I don't see how the file could be corrupt if it worked on the AW and then as a wav on Audacity? I simply copied it from computer to USB thumb drive. Please let me know if you find anything. Thanks Byron


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:31 pm 
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I might try a couple of things to track things down.

You could go back to your original source of this file that doesn't work. Then save it again. Tell us from where you are starting and what is your procedure. Maybe something happened along the way. ??

You could load the file into audacity and then save it again, under a new file name, to a new location. (i.e. you have audacity create a duplicate version) Will that file load?

I probably asked this but, are you able to load other wav files into a Kronos ? I mean is this a general issue, or specific to this file?

I could send you pdf of the manual I was looking at, but for which the link did not work.

Send a PM (private message) with an email address. I will do the same.

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