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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:22 am 
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Lone Star

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:30 pm
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Favourite food: hamburgers
Machine type: AW1600
Hey Folks! I just picked up a used AW1600 and have successfully upgraded it to SD card. I though some might be interested in the process, so here we go.

First I'd like to thank the previous posters. You've provided some good background info that isn't available anywhere else. A number of questions have popped up that I'd like to address to start:

- Yamaha uses a type of raid-array for reading and writing audio files. This is why it makes 2 drives and why you need a clean drive for the AW to recognize it. Microsoft's FAT system was never designed for high-performance throughput - it was designed for business applications which usually happen in small bursts, not the sustained throughput required for audio. Yamaha's proprietary OS is somewhat compatible with Microsoft but needs to do some low-level stuff MS doesn't to get it to work with reasonable speed.

- The AW does recognize drives larger than the supplied 40 gig, but it is still an 8 or 16 bit OS so it will not recognize large drives. Yamaha says as much on their website. As noted elsewhere, if you've filled 40 gigs it's probably time to start doing some backups.

- If you have an AW1600 you can backup the library sample files and sample song through USB - there's no need for a replacement disc (which is no longer available) unless you've formatted your drives and deleted what was on your machine. Regardless, those files are not necessary for the machine to operate.

- Yamaha, in a rare show of forward thinking, has implemented the same MIDI/USB tech across all their hardware products. What this means is you can go to Yamaha's website and download the latest version for your OS and it should work. I'm successfully running their 64-bit Windows USB drivers without issue.

- On MIDI - the AW does send MIDI from the transport section for a Cubase control surface but TRANSPORT needs to be set to REMOTE in the REMOTE window of the 1600. See Page 164 of the OM.

Now to the SD upgrade. These are the parts I used:

SD/SDHC/MMC memory card to 2.5" 44Pin 44-Pin Male IDE Adapter - https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0767F57J5
40 Pin 3.5'' IDE to 44 Pin 2.5'' IDE Adapter - https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0072UKJ3O
Kingston Digital Select 64GB microSDXC Class 10 - https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B079GVC5B8

The upgrade process is pretty straight forward:

- download the latest Yamaha AW1600 file from their website - https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/52029_en.html

- download the latest Yamaha MIDI-USB drivers from their website - https://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/music ... oduct-tabs

- Connect to your AW1600 via USB and backup all the files from both drives.

- Burn the Yamaha AW1600PG.BIN to the root directory of a CD and close the disc session. You can put the other files on there as well, like the remote and MIDI, for safe keeping but the AW doesn't need them for disc replacement.

- With the AW on, put the CD in the drive and power down the AW.

- Remove the existing hard drive and plug in the aforementioned SD bits.

- Power up the AW holding down the Song and Remote keys. The AW should see the SD card as a legitimate IDE drive and automatically formats it before asking you if you want to upgrade the OS. Answer in the affirmative and let the AW do its thing.

- Once it's finished, power the AW off then back on. This is necessary for the OS to load properly for USB operation.

- Connect the AW to your computer via USB and copy the backup library and song files onto your new SD hard drive and start making music!

Nice thing about SD cards is you can pre-format a few and swap them out as they become full. I went with a 64 gig but you could probably use something larger if needed.

That's pretty much it. I wrapped the SD card adapters in foam padding so they wouldn't knock into anything and short/whatever but if I was using the AW as a travel machine I'd look to some mechanism (velcro probably) to hold the adapters more firmly in place.

This should future-proof the AW 1600 for as long as I'll need it. Hope this is useful to others.


Last edited by Verne Andru on Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:29 am 
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Robbie The Botkiller
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Hi Verne, welcome to the forum and thank you for your contribution.

I'd say "newbie of the month" (as we often said in the old days) but first, you're the first newbie
in many months and second, reading your message "newbie" is not a suitable predicate.

We're just a bunch of old geezers (ok... I have to speak for myself...) that still visit this
forum every now and then... make yourself at home.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:22 pm 
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Welcome to the forum. thanks for the informative post on going to an sd drive. I've been watching similar videos on doing something like this to my old ipod classic. These guys aren't stopping at 64gb. They're upwards of 256gb. If you happened to video the experience, I'd love to see how you did it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:03 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Machine type: AW2400
RZ wrote:
Welcome to the forum. thanks for the informative post on going to an sd drive. I've been watching similar videos on doing something like this to my old ipod classic. These guys aren't stopping at 64gb. They're upwards of 256gb. If you happened to video the experience, I'd love to see how you did it.


ditto on the welcome.

I do have an ipod classic with a SSD installed. Mine is a Gen 5, so it originally had a 30 gB drive. The 200+ gB SSD has been dependable and i appreciate the large storage. I bought mine with the mod so can't advise on how. The first big hurdle is to get the thing open! Don't forget to swap the battery while the box is open.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:13 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Verne's post should be a sticky, but i forget how to do that.!! Is there any chance there could be a link to this post on the docs page?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:30 pm
Posts: 6
Favourite food: hamburgers
Machine type: AW1600
Thanks for the kind welcomes everybody. I'm just an old geezer myself so I should fit right in.

I've done hardware level programming back in the day and was part of Microsoft's alpha team during the development of their AVI file format, so I have a bit of an understanding about what's going on under the hood. Or think I do at any rate LOL.

Just a guess here but I'm thinking Yamaha used an 8-bit disc mapping scheme, which would mean the drive storage will probably max at 256-ish gigs. 256 is the largest number an 8-bit register can hold. Intel processors use a segment/offset mechanism to create a 16-bit addressing scheme from an 8-bit register, which Yamaha techs probably figured was over-kill. 40 gigs was a lot of drive space at one time and Barracuda drives have always been a premium drive. Nice thing about the SD card is you can keep swapping them out with larger ones until the AW says no.

With streaming audio and video applications the drive has to be switched into a different mode at the hardware level so it will take a long, sustained throughput. MS-DOS is optimized for short bursts and therefore not really suitable for audio which is why the AW needs a virgin disc so it can configure it at the hardware level accordingly.

As for the 2 drives - a RAID disc array provides the ability to keep 2 files open without having to be constantly closing one and opening another for different read and write operations. That seriously degrades performance. I'm just guessing here as I don't know what Yamaha did, but that would be the approach I'd take and it does seem like the configuration they use would facilitate RAID.

I didn't do a video but did take pics along the way. Installation isn't a whole lot more complex than removing the 6 screws holding the drive on the AW, unplugging the 2 cables from the drive and plugging them into the adapter.

Here are the 3 bits you'll need - an SD card, an SD to IDE adapter and a 3.5 to 2.5" IDE adapter:

Image

Here are the 3 bits put together:

Image

Flip side of the 3 bits put together:

Image

SD card bits plugged into the AW1600:

Image

I haven't stressed it yet, but so far disc I/O is pretty close to instant. SD is solid state with no moving parts so aside from the dramatic speed and capacity advantages, the AW doesn't make any more noise. Without the CD running and no hard drive it's dead quiet! Without the hard drive the AW1600 is also noticeably lighter. The drive is fairly heavy all things considered.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:07 pm 
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Greenhorn
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Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:21 am
Posts: 167
Location: central maine, usa
Favourite food: pizza
Machine type: AW4416
wow ....nice finish to an old thread ... =D>

so this may also work with the aw2400, aw2816, aw4416 ? :-k

mark


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:30 pm
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Favourite food: hamburgers
Machine type: AW1600
hudrodguy wrote:
wow ....nice finish to an old thread ... =D>

so this may also work with the aw2400, aw2816, aw4416 ? :-k

mark


It should work with the AW2400 as it is the same vintage as the AW1600. Not sure about the others but if they use IDE drives I don't see an obvious reason why it shouldn't. Parts are cheap enough to make it worth a try without a big loss if it doesn't work out.

Recorded with it over the weekend and everything works as it should.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:20 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:30 pm
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Favourite food: hamburgers
Machine type: AW1600
For the gear-heads out there I just took a look through the 1600 service manual. It shows the unit using a HD6417709SF133BV processor, which contains Hitachi's (spec sheet says 200-MHz but service manual layout shows 128-MHz CPU and 64-MHz bus) SH-3 (SuperH family) high-end 32-bit RISC microprocessor that is designed for portable multimedia equipment. It's got a host of high-end features like on-board MMU and DSP.

Basically Yamaha went all-out on the processor they put in there which is why the unit works as well as it does. Here are some links:

- https://www.renesas.com/us/en/products/ ... 133BV.html
- https://www.renesas.com/us/en/products/ ... uperh.html
- https://www.netogram.com/sh3processor.htm
- http://www.hitachi.com/New/cnews/E/1998/980511B.html

Here's the Service Manual link: https://elektrotanya.com/yamaha_aw1600_ ... nload.html


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:28 pm 
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Greenhorn
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Location: central maine, usa
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Machine type: AW4416
Verne Andru wrote:
hudrodguy wrote:
wow ....nice finish to an old thread ... =D>

so this may also work with the aw2400, aw2816, aw4416 ? :-k

mark


It should work with the AW2400 as it is the same vintage as the AW1600. Not sure about the others but if they use IDE drives I don't see an obvious reason why it shouldn't. Parts are cheap enough to make it worth a try without a big loss if it doesn't work out.

Recorded with it over the weekend and everything works as it should.



hello verne,

i have looked at the harddrive in the aw4416 tray and found the pin inputs do not match the pin outputs from the adapter .. the pin out on my hdd is 50 pin ... is there a way to get 50 pin to the adapter ?

any help is greatly appreciated

mark


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:30 pm
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Favourite food: hamburgers
Machine type: AW1600
hudrodguy wrote:
hello verne,

i have looked at the harddrive in the aw4416 tray and found the pin inputs do not match the pin outputs from the adapter .. the pin out on my hdd is 50 pin ... is there a way to get 50 pin to the adapter ?

any help is greatly appreciated

mark


Hi Marc,

I did a quick google and came up with this Yamaha page listing various replacement drives:

http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article/mus ... /2003/6606

I picked the Hitachi HTS548040M9AT00 at random and a search gave me this page:

https://www.hdsentinel.com/storageinfo_ ... 8040M9AT00

It identifies the interface as a Ultra-ATA/100, not an IDE. A search for ATA to SD didn't show anything so you're going to have to find an ATA to IDE then IDE to SD. Here's a page that may help explain some of the issues:

https://askleo.com/whats_the_difference ... a_and_ide/

Google is your friend, my friend. I was concerned this unit might be older SCSI, which would be a real headache, but an ATA is at least in the ballpark.

Wish I could help more. All the best in your experiments and be sure to report back with your findings.

Cheers - Verne


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:33 am 
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Greenhorn
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Location: central maine, usa
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Machine type: AW4416
hello verne,

the hhd from the tray is

ibm travelstar model # ic25n020atcs04-0
4200 rpm 20.00 GB ATA/IDE

i will check w/ leo and keep pushing forward

mark ... with a "k"


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:23 pm 
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Greenhorn
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Location: central maine, usa
Favourite food: pizza
Machine type: AW4416
hello all,

after searching for the answer ... i came accross this site with parts and procedures

http://www.home-machine-shop.com/Yamaha_AW4416.htm .... (this site should be an added sticky note) =D>

i now have parts on order (coming on a slowboat from china) ... i'll update as soon as items are received and tested

i now have the parts and pcs to convert an aw-1600 to flashcard ... if anyone is interested in them, let me know, i'll not be using them - still in packaging ... (not usable in aw-1644)

its an easy swap according to verne ... the parts will work in aw1600 and could possiblywork in the aw16g ... the 16g, 1600, 2400 and 4416 share the same type of hhd but mount differently in the box

more to come

mark


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:54 pm 
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Favourite food: sushi
Machine type: AW2400
Watching and waiting. Good luck.

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rz-land


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:30 pm 
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Marker Magician
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Thanks for keeping us in the loop. I too am watching this thread.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:04 pm 
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Greenhorn
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Location: central maine, usa
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Machine type: AW4416
hello ,

the cf card arrived yesterday but there may be a problem ...

i ordered a transcent 32 gb 133x cf card ... :)

i received a transcent 32 gb 800x card ... #-o

is the accellerated speed of the card more than the aw4416 can handle ... ? :-k

i am not a computer geek guy but am fearless when it comes to opening up things and seeing how they work ... sometimes things work after i get inside them, sometimes they don't ... i do want the console to work properly when i am through the upgrading

could anyone shed light on the speed issue of the card ? 133x vs. 800x

thanks

mark


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:38 pm 
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Website Slayer and Problem Solver
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I did a lot of digital hardware design during my working years. My guess is that the higher speed won't be a problem. It's usually the other way around. I.e. the hardware needs a high speed device, but you bought a low speed one.

Interesting project. Good luck.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:16 pm 
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Greenhorn
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Location: central maine, usa
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Machine type: AW4416
still awaiting the parts to upgrade the aw4416, but, if anyone with an aw1600 wants to try this upgrade, i have all 3 parts listed by verne which will not work in aw4416 ... new , in the package, uninstalled ... adapter, card reader, flash card

cost to forum members $30 + shipping

let me know if anyone is interested

thanks

mark


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